Shaved heads in basic training; is this mandatory? If it is, then why and why only for males?

Equality for all, just the women get to be more equal than men when it comes to the grooming standards.....just saying

PO1 Jeffrey Pennala All animals are equal. Some animals are more equal than others.

PO1 Jeffrey Pennala - escpecially when you go to the field and there are 2 shower/latrines. 1 for the 120 males and the other for the 3 females....

PO1 Jeffrey Pennala - I see your point. But in many ways I believe that there is a case for "separate but equal" based on sex. We are NOT created equal in that respect. Physically we have different musculature, different bone density. I know HAIR is a small thing, but many of us are totally happy to be that "different". In all honestly, if we were all the same, we'd all be either male or female, (or sexless) and reproduce by splitting like amoebas.

Unless the regulations change, everything is just opinions.

I'm more concerned about going to the field and having 2 showers/latrines. 1 for the 120 males and the other one for the 3 females......

This forum is about discussion. "What do the regs say?" is not the "right answer."

Yes, that is true. I was in Basic in late summer of 1984; we had a girl from Guam who had the most amazing super long, never-touched-by-a-scissors head of thick, lusterous blue-black hair. And because it did not fit under her hat, we had to cut off what seemed like a MILE of it in the supply room. It was heartbreaking to see it laying in the trash can. But standards are standards.

One other thing to note is as comments mention if your hair did not allow you to properly wear your headgear, protective mask, or any other equipment you were required to wear on your head, properly then it had to be cut. No arguments, no ifs, ands, or buts.

Thank you Cowboy! Good to see a familiar face in this TOTALLY unfamiliar territory.

SP5 Jeannie Carle you're very welcome Jeannie.

When I was in Basic in 1984, there was a girl from Guam with us, training for Air Guard. She literally had hair to her knees, it had never been touched by a scissors. It was a thing of beauty... I was so jealous, since I can't grow nice hair! And she could not get it under her hat, there was just SO MUCH and it was so thick. She begged us to cut it off for her. Which we did, with much regret. We went into the supply room and cut hunks of it off until we could get it to fit under her hat and be within standards. And we only cut the absolute minimum. I think we were all broken hearted over it, seeing all that lustrous blue-black hair laying in the trash can.

It is very seldom someone says something that has enough validity to make me change my mind. Not that Im stubborn, it's just that most of what I've seen in regards to this argument relates to the easy "make everyone equal by making them all perform to male standards" nonsense.

I believe you are sincere with your response and I appreciate that. As much as I absolutely despise the idea of service members having to lose their gender identity, (I can't believe Im about to admit this) I think you may be right about how "anything short of uniformity degrades our cohesiveness". I think the situation we're in now where males are constantly pitted against females proves your point.

I will say however that gender isn't simply an outward characteristic. It's a scientific fact that does separate species of all kinds. Regardless, you have my wheels turning sir.

SSG V. Michelle Woods I respect your thought thought-fullness and your willingness to keep thinking about this topic. Continued willingness to question our previously held ideas is what allows us to grow.

Sex (as distinct from gender-a cultural and behavioral thing) is indeed a scientific fact that separates animals of all species, and it does restrict the behavior roles of most animals. What separates us from animals is our mind. We have the ability to overcome the dictates of our animal origin.

I think it it important to consider what we expect of our Sailors, Soldiers, Airmen and Marines, and those in specific specialties, then hold them to those standards. What we do is combat, and combat doesn't care what your sex or race or heritage is or who you pick as a life partner. The only things combat cares about are how fast, how strong, how smart, how much endurance, how much toughness, and how much love you have for your fellow warriors.

I really hope the armed forces move toward considering specific specialties and their standards before we have infantrymen running around with hair buns or finance clerks running around with shaved heads lol.
Being fit to fight is necessary as well as being able to process payroll requests however to go to those two extremes for EVERY service member would make us look ridiculous lol.

SSG you must remember every soldier may be required to fight as infantry under certain conditions. So mixed standards for MOS might not be such a good idea.Ie ww2 battle of lots of conversions to infantry Iraq people in convoys getting ambushed and finding their personal weapon didn't work because they failed to keep it clean. The Marines make it clear Every marine is a rifleman

So true. I know I'm certainly laughing right now...and rolling my eyes lol. 

SFC Mark Merino, I'm from the South *and* grew up in a seriously matriarchal family, so I have no problem problem playing both sides of the fence.

Let the men have their stubble as a rite of masculine passage while the women can keep their tresses because they don't need to be ugly to be fierce -- as any Southern lady can attest (and Texas counts as Southern in this regard, SSG V. Michelle Woods).

Texas seceded with the Confederacy and is absolutely Southern! We're just the most unique kind of South ;)

SSG V. Michelle Woods - Never ask where someone is from, if they are from Texas, they will tell you, if not, don't embarrass them. Jimmy Dean

Why just in Basic? Why not at all times?

Because this topic is about how female's don't have to change their hair styles as long as it is 670-1 compliant while in Basic, but males do.

The hair reg should state min/max length and have it apply equally to both sexes. This is from A guy that has worn his short since about 1960 or earlier, however if you want to grow yours to the floor im cool with that to.

SGT (Join to see) - The use the lowest cutting standard on the electric clippers. No razors are used

PO1 Jeffrey Pennala - I don't understand what your trying to say. The female Soldiers can get a hair cut as well if they like. However most choose not to. I would not call that special treatment thats just the way it is. As far as everyone getting a hair cut during BCT is a sore subject. I don't make enough and I don't write policy to change it. I haven't been a Drill Sergeant in many years but when I left the trail female Soldiers were not required to shave there heads.

MSG (Join to see) - I wanted to be sure because I'd never heard of razors used on the scalp in this era. With that clarification, it would be "buzz cut", not "shave" fro mmy understanding.

SFC(P) Josh Morgan thank you reading my response, the point I was trying to make was that folks were saying that when they were pushing boot campers through boot camp the time allotted for mens haircuts was a small window and was just enough time to buzz the hair off boot camp style. So if men and women were to receiving the same training how could it be possible for the women going through boot camp to have enough time to have their hair styled and their choices explained but the men only get a tiny window.
Which part of the training men were receiving was altered or cut out to allow for the women to have extra hair styling time? Wouldn't be easier to everybody get their cut hair off and just let that be a part of the experience for everyone who goes through boot camp, let the training be the same for everyone haircuts included.

The same as is quite different from just cut to 1/2 inch The SAME MEANS JUST ALIKE WITH NO DIFFERENCE.

Not all females take care of their hair. Infact your entire post is downright sexist.

Good point. If males shouldn't be focusing on Female's hair, what does their hair length matter?

I honestly have no idea what these last 2 comments are about.  What in the world are you two talking about?

Part of the right of passage is to equalize everyone. The same status, clothing, and challenges.

Honestly if having your head shaved would have been a deal breaker on enlisting, maybe you have chosen the wrong career firld. Serving in the armed forces is aboutmore than yourself, if you can set aside your hair during bct/bmt and put service before self, you should probably reevaluate.

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter, SPC Kristen Townsend, SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth, SFC(P) Josh Morgan, maybe that was true in the days of iron men and wooden ships or when airplanes were made of wood and fabric. These days are filled with identity politics "toxic masculinity" and "toxic feminism" the hair thing is just another "privilege divider" just make it the same for everybody. Why is it bad for women to have their haircut? Don't you think men would like to have their hair styled too, especially these days? It is a double standard, but it is also an opportunity to bring some cohesiveness to the whole process a shared "equal" experience, not a "when I went to boot camp men had their heads shaved and women had their hair styled". You know because women are privileged and need to be carried and protected through boot camp because without special treatment they wouldn't do it, is that really the sentiment we are communicating with this double standard?

PO1 Jeffrey Pennala - I'm not suggesting they be given lighter training but expecting a woman's head to be shaved isn't and never has been reasonable. Shaved heads is even an acceptable style for men but not for women unless there was a natural problem with baldness. I don't see that as being privileged but as an unreasonable and unjustified expectation. There is nothing toxic about men being men and women being woman and keeping their sexual identity and in all case expected to be held to the same training standards to do the same job. Anything more ( which already takes into account hair regulations including style and length for women in uniform) goes way beyond any double standard.

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter the demand has been made and heard from all the brass hats and congress critters that women will fulfill roles traditionally held by men. Equal is equal, the same standard should apply to all. I would have loved to have my haircut to the "legal standard allowed" by the regs at the time, but it was shaved, not just made uniform legal. That is a double standard, to imply that men don't care how their hair looks is outside of the realm of reality, but women should be able to choose. Why? Because what? They are women is the only reason hence a double standard, so you recognize there are differences!! How to reconcile that men and women are equal doctrine that prevails today, either they are equal in respects in the MOS's/NEC's they fill or are women just more equal than men when filling traditional male billets? Just saying, I think it is a shame we to pretend that there are no differences between the sexes so we can be politically correct. I am all in favor of riding that policy over the cliff it will eventually fall off so we can finally rid ourselves of the make believe SJW mindset out of the society. It is ruining the military, colleges and universities, workplaces, and in all aspects of American life these days. You can't even watch a movie without seeing a 90lb woman beating the crap out of a 250lb professional bodyguard. They ruined Ghostbusters, Star Wars, and hundreds of other movie franchises and TV shows. I am tired of it and am waiting to see it to its final conclusion, we can look back, sigh, and say "what were we thinking".

PO1 Jeffrey Pennala - I was in a career field that was all Men, it did open up and women were slowly moved into that field and most of them adapted quite well and were effective and independent in their duty performance. In later years after women had already proved they could do that job they became a permanent part of that career field , Specifically I speak of the Security Police/Security Forces. Making women look like Men to do the same job is in my opinion overstepping any reasonable expectations, its duty performance that concerns Me and along with a proper Military appearance keeping within reasonable standards. There are some people both male and female that aren't suited to that career field but most that work that job do meet or exceed the standards. Doing anything to be politically correct is a major problem and the two sexes do have differences but they don't tend to be motivation, duty performance or patriotism. Training however, for male or females is another related subject, either You meet the standard and do whats expected of You or You don't belong there !

As a transgender vet, let me say that current regs across all the US uniform services enforce western societal sex and gender norms, and this includes uniform regs on acceptable hair styles and hair length. The libertarian part of my soul asks the question "Should enforcing sex and gender norms should be a function of government?" Other than enforcing societal sex and gender norms, I don't see a reason.

At 17 I joined AF Ready Reserve on my B’day. An opportunity came the following year to go Active AF
And I took it.(they needed the AFSC I had. I became Active duty on my 18th B’day. Shortly after the Sqdn Clerk asked if I ever signed for selective service. He had my 201 opened in front of him, why ask a
Stupid question. The answer is in front of him.. So I never answered ... ($&@€£¥%#|\!) I didn’t believe I needed to.. I pulled out my cover and put it on on the way out the door.. I think he figured it out a few days later..

WOW

That sums it up.