Posted on Apr 12, 2014
SSG Robert Burns
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Head shaving
So I was in basic training land today to help with some medical stuff. I couldn't help but noticed all the shaved heads all over the place and then the females with 20 ft of hair. In an era where we are screaming equal treatment; is this equal?I am also wondering why does a new private have to get his head shaved in the first place? Why not just a haircut within Army Standards?

Have the lines between male and female been erased?  Are they trying to be erased or are we picking and choosing which ones we want to erase? Why does a male soldier have no choice in keeping his hair but a female does? If you love Liberty you will vote below.

ADDED: Could this be considered a form of hazing with the crackdown on hazing since this is obviously not a requirement but more of a tradition? I'm not saying I think it is I'm just asking the question. If it's not required and it doesn't apply to everyone.

*****UPDATED******
Well, well, well what do we have here?
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/careers/2015/01/08/rtc-boot-camp-haircuts-navy/21439483/
Edited >1 y ago
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LTC Angie Habina
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Females are still required to maintain a feminine like appearance and behavior...that being said, and having commanded in an IN BDE (I’m sure it’s not limited to combat arms BDEs), there are many females who are less than feminine. And “feminine” may be subjective. Our dearly loved 670-1 has recently changed to allow females to have a close cut / shaved style. If that makes you feel more part of the team, then have at it.
Males are also to keep a gentlemanly appearance and behavior. Well...again that’s someone debatable and subjective.
I agree getting your hair shaved in BCT is part of tradition for men, part of cutting the civilian out and rebuilding, and a whole lot more about hygiene. By the time it grows back (2-3 weeks someone said), you’re transitioning phases, you need the little break and rest. I’m sure it’s not restful, but it’s also not a 10-12 mile foot march (Are there still foot marches in BCT? It’s been a while since I’ve been through it.)
Females go through their own mandatory changes in basic training. As someone mentioned, yes, we have our mandatory 5 wellness exams before going to BCT and then annually to every 3 years depending on service branch and health. (Not to take away from turning your head a coughing.)
But forcing a female to shave her head bc it would be funny, as mentioned by another, is not a correct answer. The standards for culture apply even in 670-1....ie only black females can have corn rows and twists, it’s faddish for all other races. Beards are allowed for certain religions during certain periods, ie mourning.
This is not a new question, nor is the question of equal APFT scores. I don’t care who says what about getting and being equal...there are physical and psychological differences between males and females. Thinking otherwise is stupid. That doesn’t mean in behavior (from or towards) or social standing genders should be treated different classes in society or in the military. A better fight / question right now, given our equal rights and ability to serve in combat arms, is “why are females not required to sign up for selective service at 18?”
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LTC Angie Habina
LTC Angie Habina
>1 y
SFC David Pope, MBA
So you understand, while you were retired, the rest of us were rotating in and out of Iraq and Afghanistan and a whole lot of the Army you knew (nearly 20 years ago now) has moved on and changed.
While knowing history is important, unfortunately, you misunderstood the initial comment and your remarks are sexist.
Thank you and have a wonderful day.
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SFC David Pope, MBA
SFC David Pope, MBA
>1 y
LTC Angie Habina - I may be retired, but I am far from being removed from the military. I have a lot of family still serving, and I am still up to date on many things. I still have an AKO account, and have read many of the current NCO Leadership manuals. The only thing I misunderstood was your comment about female officers, but the answer to your initial question about the draft still to this day remains true. The answer may seem sexist, but that is how the law was written, and why. The law was just found to be unjust this February 2019. However it is still the current law on the books, but nobody has changed it since Vietnam. My DBA program is in Organizational Behavior and Leadership. Many things that are regarded as sexist today, were not so in the time the draft was created. Before Vietnam if you were an only son, you could not be drafted to protect he family name!
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
6 y
Congress hasn't seen fit to do their job and pass a law saying do it. They would rather sit around and try to find fault with every other part of the federal government.
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LTC Angie Habina
LTC Angie Habina
6 y
CPT William Jones Well as a citizen, you have right to craft the bill, garner signatures, and submit it to Congress. There’s a whole process and procedure.
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SrA David Heineken
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Any female that wants a combat mos should be assigned and live and train from the beginning with males. This includes boot camp.
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PO1 Jeff Brown
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this tradition has some good reasons for existing. Not the least of which is tearing you down as a civilian, so that you can be ‘built up’ as a sailor, soldier, or marine; unit uniformity, ease of cleanliness. Someone mentioned hazing... sure, I’m ok with hazing that doesn’t cause physical harm. After your hair grows back, you feel like you’ve earned the right. Shave both genders!
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CN Steelworker
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You conform to the military, the military doesn't conform to you. If you don't want your head shaved, tough.
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SSG David Stafne
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It is my understanding that the practice of shaved heads for new Recruits dates back to WWII when the our military had a huge number of Americans joining up. Many of those Recruits were not too keen on basic personal hygiene. With everyone living in crowded open bay barracks, shaving everyone’s head was a way to protect the health and welfare of the unit.

In today’s Army, shaved heads is more in line with the Basic Training concept where a Recruit is stripped of all their “Rights “ and we earn them back as “Privileges,” a concept I agree with. And, in fairness, this should apply to ALL Soldiers, not just the men!
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GySgt Michael Chapman
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I haven't looked at any other responses, so this may have already been said.
Seems to me, shaving the head has a couple of benefits...lice control being one...spotting unknown medical issues is a possibility, but more than anything it's about bringing everyone to the same level. Now, I can't speak for the Army, but in the Marine Corps we still have segregated boot camp. I believe it should stay this way, but that's a different discussion.
If you shave all the boy's heads in boot camp it creates a sense of equality in treatment and respect. They all lose their hair and all look a little silly.
Shaving women's heads seems a bit over the top. A woman, in my opinion, should be treated as such. This isn't a misogynistic point of view, but rather a more conservative one. In some circles, you shame a woman by shaving her head. I do think a shortened hair cut would be in order for all female recruits.
As a side note, suggesting that getting your head shaved in boot, or basic is hazing is just stupid. Put that garbage out of your mind.
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LCpl Douglas Landrith Jr
LCpl Douglas Landrith Jr
>1 y
Well said Gunny! I 100% agree with what you said. People need to get over this "everything is fucking hazing bullshit". Semper Fi Gunny
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TSgt Melissa Post
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It was my understanding that shaving a guy's head was one way to break him down. There are some things that you just can't make equal. If guys get to keep their hair, girls should get to keep their makeup and nail polish. Sounds ridiculous and I think there could be bigger things to debate over but that is my take. It isn't an equality thing.
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
5 y
Soldiers are paid to do a job that is different than any civilian job. If haircuts and things of that sort are regulated the rules should be the same. you don't join the 1.5% to look like movie stars models etc, you join to Serve. The more rules that are the same the less paper needed
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SSG Robert Burns
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SFC Processing Nco
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Simply put, TRADOC 350-6 appendix K-4d. All males will get "buzz cut" at reception.
Men and women are different and different accommodations need to be made within reason. Otherwise men will be getting bras and women will have to shave. And what of ear rings? Should men get to wear them?
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
5 y
There hair is no different than males it is the current customs that dictate styles and both males and females in the world wear their the same from long to short. Military regs should reflect that figure out what they want and issue an uniform reg for all military folks.This is one issue that needs no adjustment for male/female differences.
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SGT Team Leader
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It would be a greater equalizer, hmm? Do you want to serve enough to at least, shave your head? Vanity or service to country? My guess is that there would be far fewer females in the ranks. Personally, I looked ridiculous in BCGs and a bun anyway. May as well have just lopped it off. Honestly, would have saved being screamed at when the bun fell during PT.
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SSG Keven Lahde
SSG Keven Lahde
>1 y
SGT (Join to see) I can just picture you with no hair....NOT!! But I do understand what you are saying.
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A1C Aircrew Flight Equipment Apprentice
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Men should be in standards the way women can, or we could all do what the navy does and women get a super short hair cut so that we still have the "hazing" as the men do. I also feel women should not be allowed to dye their hair in basic. You know your date in advance, get back to natural and dye it again after you get through basic.
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SSG Infantryman
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It has been awhile since I was in basic training. The shaving of the head in more out of necessity, you don't have the luxury of getting a hair cut every week to keep a haircut in regs.
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
7 y
Been a real log time since I was in basic (1964)but we got haircuts once a week. And they were pushing more then than now.And too a shaved head is faddish and not allowed under AR 670-1
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SSG Robin Rushlo
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I found that for Infantry basic and AIT shaved head worked very good. If the females want to get in the Combat arms then HEAD shaved otherwise within standards.
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Sgt Arthur Went
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I believe in boot-camp both men and women should have their heads shaved for the reason of hygiene and easier maintenance.All the combat and field training a recruit goes through.
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LCpl Jason Clark
LCpl Jason Clark
11 y
There is also a psychological part to the shaving of recruits heads, uniforms and use of last name only. The similar they are with one another the better the unit cohesiveness, during the breakdown phase this helps with teamwork and loyality development.
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SSG Trevor S.
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As a right of passage it should be universal.
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SPC Infantryman
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Shave em' both bald. Builds character.
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SGT Shon D. Hill
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I'm shocked this topic has spun up such a massive response! I finally bucked up on hazing topic and disagreed due to it's connection with our mission, WAR COMBAT, along with Civilians on here too! Hazing discussion now, I'm a vet now, but it's huge!
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SGT Shon D. Hill
SGT Shon D. Hill
11 y
SSG Roberts this is not to offend you at all, but hear I go Ok! I posted a question 2 days ago about I WANT TO EXPATRIATE THIS COUNTRY TO LIVE IN BELIZE, COSTA RICA OR SOUTH AMERICA AND SOME REASONS WHY! ZERO RESPONSE? I don't want points, I'm asking for dialogue, advice, or thoughts on why I don't belong, can't afford to pay PAIN DR $250 month office visit and $350 Oxycodone prescription cuz VA KILLED PAIN MEDS ON US!
Hair length for Female Soldiers in Basic debate.....? Of course it's obvious I'm referring more to veteran/disabled vet type issues here and thought it would peak some serious interest but hair is on front-page news, lol! I'm sure a few posts will come through on my strange question :).
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
SSG V. Michelle Woods
11 y
SGT Hill

I couldn't find your topic. Are you sure it posted?
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SGT Shon D. Hill
SGT Shon D. Hill
11 y
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/do-fellow-combat-veterans-want-to-expatriate-to-another-country
Awesome! I think I'm getting proficient with I-phone copy, paste, etc, LOL! Thanks for asking Vickie :) yea the link or copy from My discussion above. I know ppl post so many questions and such, I just noticed that the moderators or same folks always get big discussions, I only want a small one ;). I think it may appear like a "dis functional vet" type question, lol, but I'm hoping it can be something more than that. Would enjoy your thoughts as Active duty and you always keep it real! Shon (first name since off-duty, right?).
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PO1 Jeffrey Pennala
PO1 Jeffrey Pennala
>1 y
SGT Shon D. Hill - Not sure what the original post was regarding becoming an expat or how it relates to boot camp haircuts. I have spent several years living in Central America, and have friends in Panama, Nicaragua, Mexico, Belize, and Costa Rica. My choice would be Costa Rica, they generally like Americans. Life in Central America is more expensive than most would think. We split our time these days between Costa Rica and the US my parents both have health problems and we need to be near to help my siblings with their care. Employment is another problem in Central America unless you start your own company so if you need income plan accordingly. US Dollars usually spend fine (it is one of the official currencies of Costa Rica). My Spanish is bad (Spanglish really) but it adds to the fun and many folks speak English and like to practice their English with native English speakers anyway. We have an apartment we keep in the Central Valley of Costa Rica the people are nice, violent crime is not common it is mostly petty theft and there is a lot of that never put your cell phone down out of reach or sight it will vanish. On the other side I dropped $100 in colonies (Costa Rica's money) at the grocery store and the person in line behind me chased me down to make sure I got it back. They have a love for their families I really enjoy seeing that, it is a Central American Latin country so patience is a requirement, silly rules ad regs are common.
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MSgt Tricare Oerations And Patient Administration Flight Chief
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Since the male standards are stricter, a shaved head will prevent them from having to go to the barber every other week, depending on the rate at which the recruit's hair grows. Females should at least be able to pin/arrange the hair into regulations, but if it cannot then it must be shortened.
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
5 y
Why should there be two sets of rules on hair. Folks that signup now do so because they want to serve for awhile.
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SPC Christopher Smith
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Hair has nothing to do with gender equality, there is more of a psychological effect in forcing women to shave their hair off, than on men. I do not have proof of this, but I'm sure I could if I cared to do the research. 
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CPT Marc Serrá
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There should be one standard for a Soldier...male or female...in all things, not just hair.

As to Basic, as a former BCT Cdr, I echo SFC Cardenas in that there simply isn't time to allow for the males getting whatever style they want.

As for female Soldiers in Basic...in my company they were losing half a day of training every three weeks to keep their hair done....sorry but that's a waste of my training time, a waste of their Soldier time, and a definite waste of Drill Sergeant time transporting and baby-sitting them at a hair salon.

After Basic, I don't really care, providing it doesn't look unprofessional and doesn't get in the way of job duties.
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SSG Ron Douglass
SSG Ron Douglass
11 y
Job transfer?
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CPT Marc Serrá
CPT Marc Serrá
11 y
New job. Previous company. Looking forward to it.
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SSG Elyzabeth Cromer
SSG Elyzabeth Cromer
8 y
My experience was the same as SSG Woods; once we unprocessed females did not get to go anywhere to have anything done to their hair.
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SSG Elyzabeth Cromer
SSG Elyzabeth Cromer
8 y
That was in processed. (Auto Spellcheck is the bane of my existence.)
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SSG Desk Sergeant
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I think it is safe to say it is easier if males get their head shaved in BCT. Once their hair gets too long and is out of regs, there is no way to fix it besides getting it cut again. We all remember how busy we were in BCT. It seems to help eliminate them being out of regs more often in my opinion. Females if their hair is getting too long to where it is out of regs, they can put it up. Females can always fix their hair on the spot, a male can't really do that. That's how i see the whole situation anyways.
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SSG Desk Sergeant
SSG (Join to see)
>1 y
Once out of BCT soldiers get more free time, which is why usually in AIT males can get what haircut they want. Not sure about other places but that was the case for my company.
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SPC Medic
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Females aren't going to just give up their femininity. Especially the ones who have worked for months to get their hair just so.
So go ahead and grumble and gripe. Not going to change anything.
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SPC Medic
SPC (Join to see)
>1 y
The beginning debate of this running commentary is geared towards females with long hair/why don't they have to shave their heads, too.
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SPC David Beam
SPC David Beam
>1 y
I don't even know what to say to that. What army are you in? It doesn't seem like the same one I am a soldier in.  I have so many angry, hateful responses on the tip of my tongue right now... but that would not be professional. Are you familiar with that term?  *sigh* Everything about your post is disgraceful. 
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SSG Robert Burns
SSG Robert Burns
>1 y
No the debate is about shaved heads, you made it about long hair.
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LTC Special Operations Response Team (Sort)
LTC (Join to see)
>1 y
Equal rights are always tied to equal responsabilities. One can't have one without the other. If they are not in balance then it is favoritism or punishment. Equal civil rights demand equal rights and equal responsabilities, positive or negative.
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Maj John Bell
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The best explanation I've heard is that it is the first military ritual of "I am part of something bigger than myself." I think there is merit in that. But it's hair. It grows back (for most of us).

Until males and females must meet exactly the same standards, the equality between the sexes is a myth.
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MAJ Hugh Blanchard
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The idea of shaving a recruit's head is to break down the cult of the individual and make everyone look and feel the same. Then the training rebuilds the individual with common behaviors and skills that build them into a team. This is not, and never has been, "An Army of One". It's a team.
And yes, I think the shaved head should apply to everyone, men and women.
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1LT Chaplain Candidate
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Good question.
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SFC Jason Rode
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I'm trying to understand why this is even a discussion. Shaved heads? Really? Trivial B.S. My retired opinion.
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SPC Brian Mason
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Men and women are NOT going to be equal. People vying for that are ignoring human biology and development. I was a Medic during my time in the Army.
There are different standards including PT. Men tend to have more upper body strength and endurance. Women tend to have better lower body/legs strength and endurance. They can tolerate pain better than we can.
I shave my head sometimes but it takes far longer. In BCT when there is over 200 people waiting efficiency is key. A woman who cuts her hair shorter(not a boy cut) before BCT is doing a good thing. We have an image to uphold. The Army doesn't see skin color like so many. There is Army Green. Rank is the definer as well as personal merit. Of course, officers are called "Sir" and "Ma'am" and that's common sense.
The cut along with many other things is part of a transition from civilian to solder. I've been out for some years and don't care if my head is shaved or trimmed. A woman's hair tends to be a defining characteristic. In our Class A's you can easily see the difference in a male and female soldier.
In conclusion, should shaving heads be required for everyone? Yes. Those of you who know how BCT is and with so little downtime, females must have their hair up unless they are showering or sleeping. Shaving removes almost all of the hair and allows for a new, healthy growth of head hair and greatly reduces the chance for lice. It's uncommon to see a woman with a shaved head like that unless they are of a particular stereotype.
BCT runs roughly just over 2 months. Hair grows roughly 1/2" a month on average. Trimming a female's hair in BCT would take much longer. I would have the female show up for an inspection a few days before going to MEPS.
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MSgt Joseph Holness
MSgt Joseph Holness
5 y
"Men and women are NOT going to be equal. People vying for that are ignoring human biology and development. "...….THANK YOU! BEST POST of the Century!
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SFC Regina Boyd
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I came on active duty in September of 1978, right when the Army officially phased out the WAC (Women's Army Corps). I went through the first co-ed basic training at Fort Jackson, SC, Co A, 4th Battalion, 1st Infantry (A-4-1) and remember Tank Hill "fondly"...about fifty recruits in our company were from Puerto Rico and did not speak English and the MAJOR concern was would they make it to the end (one did not, because of violence issues [female, not male]) and through BRM (Basic Rifle Marksmanship). I had already cut my hair before basic because it was going to be a hassle having to deal with doing what you have to do with long hair to be compliant with Army regulation and because THERE WAS NO TIME!! I can look back on all that with a smile on my face, but at the time, there were no smiles!! The military already shows equality in pay - everyone can see who makes what at each pay grade by number of years. In civilian life, good luck. What your co-worker makes in wages is a virtual trade secret. Speaking from "experience," men and women are two physically different creatures. Yes, some women can push the limits of physical strengths as some men - but not all. It's also not the physical part that's important, but also the mental. Mental toughness is the true test. Working with what you have to do what you've go to do to accomplish the mission is the utmost. Basic training was designed to "weed out" those that can't make "the cut." (Pun intended.) In the grand scheme of things in the universe, does it really matter if a woman shaves her head bald? Can she deal with it? Probably. Some won't, but they won't be in the military. Will there ever be "equality" between men and women? Probably. Probably not. It's not a race. It's not a competition. I could care less that you can run 2 miles in under 8 minutes or that you can bench press 300 pounds. That's not the true test. The true test is with your mind.
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
5 y
I was riding with you until the last couple of lines. That physical stuff is important is several MOS that are now available Infantry can you haul a very heavy pack several days and while doing so drag a wounded buddy to safety, or Arty load a larger number id rounds and load them, same with tanks as a loader. etc
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SFC David Reid, M.S, PHR, SHRM-CP, DTM
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This is just how it is !
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SSG William Wall
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5c868ab4
In closing... NASA says this alignment occurs only once every 500 years.
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LTC Zachary Hubbard
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Both males and females should have their heads shaved.
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PV2 Glen Lewis
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I suppose if you're going to nit pick and whine this is as good a subject as any.
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SFC David Pope, MBA
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A shaved head makes for faster grooming in the morning. I am not going to way in on the females, except that it didn't bother me 31 years ago, and it doesn't bother me today. Why should it bother anyone else. If it is not an issue of you getting shot, sick or injured, then leave it alone!
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1SG Michael Blount
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By TRADOC policy, the Army does not shave heads - .the haircut, however is very short. There are two reasons for this: (1) amongst males, this marks the beginning of the transition from civilian to soldier (2) training schedules are full enough without having to bustle Privates off to the barber every week or so for a touch up. Accordingly, haircuts are short, thus minimizing training interruptions courtesy of going to the barber.
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SrA Christine Martinez
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Edited >1 y ago
As I read the question: "Shaved heads in basic training: is this mandatory? If it is, then why, and why only for males?" I had to wonder if this question was asked by a civilian. I was shocked to see it asked by a SSG in the Army. Really?
First, I don't know if the current Army regulation on standards of wearing the United States Army uniform, i.e., 'dress code' is still USA Reg 670-1, but it used to be the equivalent to the Air Force's AFR 35-10, which I've learned is now Air Force Instruction 36-2903, Dress & Personal Appearance of Air Force Personnel. [https://www.thebalancecareers.com/air-force-grooming-standards-hair-regulations-3331703]
What I do know is, [male] Basic Training recruits have had their heads shaved for several reasons: one reason, and perhaps the ONLY reason we need to discuss, is that every military branch takes a recruit, and physically, mentally, and sometimes spiritually, breaks them down during this indoctrination and training phase. Whatever physical or mental part(s) of the recruit that is/are seen as 'undesirable', or 'unnecessary' is removed, and replaced with whichever standards the specific training curriculum deems appropriate. It's part of the transition from a civilian to that of a Soldier, Airman, Marine, or Seaman.
Secondly, the rationalization of shaving a man's head as a recruit is this fundamental reason:
you go into Basic as a know-nothing, get-your-shit-together recruit. 'Shape up, or ship out'. You are taken out of your comfort zone, your physical persona broken down, and you become part of something great. You are given standards and treated equally to every other recruit, and if you pass Basic Training, you will become a part of the whole. Before a trainee can transition from the recruit to the full-fledged servicemember they have to leave their identity at the Military Entrance Processing Station (MEPS) they took their Oath of Enlistment at. You will be taken out of your civilian clothing and be given appropriate military attire. You will be taught and reminded how to dress properly, how/where/when to wear a hat, and probably with a bit of 'face time' with your Drill Instructor. You will be trained to look like your fellow trainees [uniformity], and to work/train in synchronization with them [conformity] as you learn combat skills, and core values.
Basic Training isn't meant to coddle anyone, and if you think that the military way of life is going to change based on *your* wants and desires, you should ring the quitting bell, or hand in your training slip, and get back on a bus home. If a recruit doesn't like the training standards at their Basic Training facility, I suggest they contact their Recruiter. For Army recruits, they can contact the United States Military Entrance Processing Command
2834 Green Bay Road
North Chicago, IL 60064-309
[http://www.mepcom.army.mil/]
(Let me know how that works for ya.)
The reason female recruits don't get their heads shaved is not an equality/inequality issue. It's because the goal for ALL recruits, and later personnel, is to uphold standards of 'conservative' grooming, and the standards are based on one's gender: male or female. All men will be held to one standard, all females to one standard. Again, I say this is not meant as a equality/inequality issue, rather it's the proverbial "two sides to every coin" in action.
If one truly believes that all aspects of [civilian/military] Life will be equal and fair for all men and women, I am not going to dissuade you of your belief. We can categorize it in the same file as Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, and unicorns.
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SrA John Monette
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if men were allowed to not have their hair shaved, they would spend valuable training time going to the barber. women, in my opinion, don't get their hair cut as often as men.
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CPT William Jones
CPT William Jones
5 y
Bu when they go they spend much more time in the chair,like hour instead of minutes.
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SSgt Robert Prest
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Af8e15a8
In 75 we got ours (40 or so) straight off the bus, no 180 back log. 20 min and we were on our way to H#ll. :)

As for Girls, I vote shaved.
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Vera Nelson
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I thought as a kid the women should get the same hair cut.
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SPC Oakley Jones
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As stated above. Not practical in BCT for all soldiers to get their haircut of choice. And women have different guidelines altogether. This shouldn’t be an issue.
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SGT Charles Wheeler
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Edited 7 y ago
We did wear our hair a little longer in the Army of the '80's, but not as long as the VOLAR era of the early to mid 70's. I'm talking about the operational force. In 1981 at BCT the first Hair cut was a scalping but only the first. AIT it was Army standard.
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