Posted on Mar 22, 2014

Should a minimum ASVAB score be required to be an NCO?

14.9K

I think it is very necessary.

As a young 19 year old PFC, I had a real tough time listening to an NCO who could not spell simple words, do simple math, or understand simple logic. I always had to second guess myself following this NCO's orders, wondering if this leader even thought the scenario through he/she was sending us to? Would we be reprimanded by another NCO? Just be wasting our time? End up looking stupid ourselves? Taking this NCO's training seriously was even tougher, because in the various minds of the lower enlisted soldiers, this NCO was an idiot. In addition to just losing confidence in our NCO, we also lost our confidence in the promotion system.

Now I am not saying we need to be geniuses, or anything ... but I think being proficient at high school level English and math would be beneficial. Keep current ASVAB scores for MOS's as they are, but make a pre-req for a certain score before going to a promotion board (Which will be the same across all MOS's, but naturally in certain MOS's, the fact you qualified for the MOS in general would mean you already meet that pre-req). Those who do not meet the score, take FAST class until they make it, or they never get to lead soldiers.

What do you think?

Posted in these groups: Images 20

NCOs

Posted >1 y ago

Follow this discussion

Responses: 35

Show most popular responses

CW2 (Join to see)

Posted 11 y ago

I agree with this completely, I've had my share of very incompetent NCO's.

(0)

Comment

(0)

SPC David S.

Edited 11 y ago

Posted 11 y ago

While I agree with you SGT Suraj Dave that most individuals would want an experienced, educated, leader this is far from what we are often presented. The reality of it is usually some variation of this perfect trifecta we seek. I think one also needs to be careful in assuming that intelligence always equates to leadership or experience. While the NCO you mentioned lacked an authoritative command of his written and verbal skills I would certainly hope that the promotion board saw it wise to make them an NCO.

To the point about the NCO not being qualified to be your superior. I've had to teach an officer how to start a jeep and others how to rapel. In no way did I ever think they were unfit to be officers I just thought of them being uninformed. That part is fixable the ability to lead not so much in my opinion.

(0)

Comment

(0)

SSG(P) (Join to see)

Posted 11 y ago

Being a NCO has nothing to do with your ASVAB score. Being a NCO is all about how you treat your Soldiers beneath you and how well you are able to complete the mission from your superiors. I have dealt with people who have college degrees and have no military bearing or sense, but being a NCO is about the epitome of Army Values and living up to them, not if you can do simple math or spell.

(0)

Comment

(0)

SGT Alicia Brenneis

Posted 11 y ago

I do not agree. I struggle with spelling and punctuation. Mostly spelling. That has nothing to do with how I do my job or how I mentor soldiers. It just means I have to use a or dictionary/spell check. I have seen dumb smart soldiers and smart dumb soldiers. A leaders abilities can not be defined by a written/computer test.

(0)

Comment

(0)

SSG (Join to see)

Posted >1 y ago

Just because someone doesn't seem to have a strong grasp on the English language or math doesn't necessarily mean that they're an idiot or that they're a bad leader or that they don't know their job.

Is communication necessary? Yes it is. But communication is a two way street. Someone has to speak, but someone also has to listen. Everyone has weaknesses or quirks. Members of a team need to learn to identify, both in themselves and others, what all of those weaknesses and quirks are so they can work together effectively and cover down on eachother to close any gaps left by everyones respective weaknesses.

(0)

Comment

(0)

SFC (Join to see)

Edited >1 y ago

Posted >1 y ago

No. I was raised in Kansas City, KS. An urban underdeveloped portion of the city. And I was raised by two incredible parents. Needless to say. They weren't always around when we ran the streets. That being said. There is book smart. Then there's street smart. Making an ASVAB score for NCO's is not the way to go. Ever seen an officer shoot an Azimuth from a Bradley....Let NCOES's garnish the 1059's. Now, the integration of SSD is an tremendous excellent implementation, especially for the Guard. Cept, we get the pleasure of doing these 80 hour courses while managing three kids and listening to wives think we're playing on the computer all day :(

(0)

Comment

(0)

SSG (Join to see)

Posted >1 y ago

I think it in many cases it can be arbitrary. I've seen some real rocks go to fast classes and destroy the ASVAB their second time taking it. At the end of the day the were still just oafs with high GT scores. Also, since switching to MI, I've seen borderline genius-types that have no place in a leadership position kill it.

(0)

Comment

(0)

SSgt Dan Montague

Posted >1 y ago

I have seen this many times as well. However, I think basing a promotion off of a ASVAB score would be wrong. The test score only shows the book knowledge of the person. If it was based off the score, it would also limit a person to 4 years of service unless they were able to take it again and score higher. The promotions process has been messed up for a while. I feel once you are eligible for Cpl, it should be strictly based on your mos performance, leadership ability, record of over all performance and esprit de corps. Any man or woman can be molded into good leaders if they are willing to learn and make mistakes.

What it comes down to is, I don't care if they can spell or write an essay. Can they lead Marines into battle and perform their job proficiently.

(0)

Comment

(0)

SSgt Thomas A Tullis Jr

>1 y

When I was promoted from Cpl to Sgt the ASVAB wasn't in the cutting score computation. Sgt to SSgt was based on total SRB and pictures submitted to HQ. When did the ASVAB become part of the promotion process?

(0)

SSgt Dan Montague

>1 y

ASVAB has never been used for promotion . Some people believe it should be to get promoted. I say it shouldn't. The way you and I were promoted remains the same.

(0)

Sgt Matthew Bill

Posted >1 y ago

I dont believe that an NCO promotion should rely on your asvab score. When we talk about the asvab, most people only take once, when they enlist. So much knowledge is gained since that initial test, that its only just a score. ALso, the ASVAB is only designed as a test of general things, such as mechanics, english, math, etc. This has no bearing on how great of a leader you can be, let alone how much knowledge you can have in your field and how well you excell at your job. The ASVAB is useless for promotion of anykind, except civilian to recruit.

(0)

Comment

(0)

SSG Randall P.

Posted >1 y ago

SGT Dave,

I can't spell very well at all, and my grammar and punctuation half the time is wrong. I am, however working at it. Though I do understand what you are saying I do not feel that the ability to spell the words shoot move and communicate immediately dictate how I will train a soldier to shoot move and communicate.

In my honest and I'm sure easily misconstrued opinion the issue was you when you were a PFC. You respond to a different type of leader. Examples of this may be, some soldiers need someone to challenge their ability to pick things up and move them, others require a more intellectual approach, as it sounds you needed as a PFC. Again this is just an opinion, not an attack.

(0)

Comment

(0)

show previous comments

SSG (ret) William Martin

>1 y

One thing is for sure, I don't judge soldiers over test scores or education levels.

(0)

SSG Randall P.

>1 y

SSG M.

And for that I thank you.

(0)

SSgt Thomas A Tullis Jr

>1 y

The ASVAB should be used primarily to establish a MOS, not promotion.

(1)

(0)

SGT(P) (Join to see)

11 y

I am never judging a soldier based on their ASVAB score on their ERB, however what tasks I give a soldier will be based on their ability to complete said task. Intellect, critical thinking, leadership skills and general skill sets all come into play in this determination. If you have a soldier that can't adapt and overcome difficulties that might arise in a task you only give them straightforward "easy" tasks that you can easily supervise. The soldier that is intelligent, has the ability to make competent decisions on their own, will get the tasks that are more open ended and take a team approach. Making competent decisions is very important, and in some cases just making a decision at all is the most important aspect of mission completion. Leadership styles come in many different styles and many varied abilities are needed to form a well rounded successful NCO, the best NCOs are the complete package.

(0)

Should a minimum ASVAB score be required to be an NCO?

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.