Posted on Feb 5, 2014
Should active duty military personnel be allowed to join a political party?
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This has been a controversial one. First a caveat, I am chairman of the Hawaii GOP and a member of the RNC so I clearly have my opinions.<div><br></div><div>But there has been past controversy of soldiers speaking out in uniform and getting in trouble. There are laws where there is clear separation, but where does it interfere with our first amendment rights?</div><div><br></div><div>Should military personnel be able to express their personal political views? Should the active component hinder political involvement? </div><div><br></div><div>*I am adding some comments below as an edit to clear up any confusion there may be on why I am asking this questions. </div><div><br></div><div><span style="color: rgb(77, 77, 77); font-size: 12px;">...My question was whether or not speaking at all while on active duty should be allowed in order to prevent mistakes from happening where military get caught like General McCrystal did. He was an awesome general and could have offered much more but some political off hand comments he made makes it on the front page of rolling stone and he was out. From what I understand what he said was in confidence and not in his capacity.</span><div style="color: rgb(77, 77, 77); font-size: 12px;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(77, 77, 77); font-size: 12px;">I am in the guard so I can hold the position I do now, but when on orders, my staff and state cmte know that I will not respond or do things that violate my orders. I will not mix the two up. <br><div><br></div><div>I am a big believer that the lines between the military and civilian sector should be separate and the civilian side with the authority over the military like our constitution grants. This is why Lincoln fired McClellan and Truman fired MacArthur, both generals were out of line regardless of what you think of their military strategy.</div><div><br></div><div>My question had nothing to do with being in uniform, but how much we can get involved to prevent any mistakes from slipping out. When I was a cadet at West Point, there was a vocal minority that active duty military personnel should not get to vote at all. They had a debate that we all had to attend as part of the class and of course we were all against it. </div></div><div style="color: rgb(77, 77, 77); font-size: 12px;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(77, 77, 77); font-size: 12px;">I am firmly against this but they did bring up a good point. Military officers historically tend to be Republican, libertarian, conservative (not all). When Clinton was in office, his staff was known to routinely speak against the military and one senior staffer told one of the top generals that "we don't speak to military personnel." (From Colin Powell's biography). Many liberals historically have disliked the military because it tended to skew towards conservatives, and the nature of national defense itself. The minority that said military should not be able to vote was to prevent any perception that officers were politically skewed one way or another because of their votes.</div><div style="color: rgb(77, 77, 77); font-size: 12px;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(77, 77, 77); font-size: 12px;">It is not about exploiting for political gain, but about maintaining a system where we promote that the military is apolitical, and its members may have to give up that right because of it. If they do have to give up the right, where is the line drawn? Right now the line is when not in uniform, you can do what you can do, but in uniform you can't. I think that is good. However one marine got in trouble because he spoke out against POTUS on facebook and wouldn't take it down when asked to by his chain of command. He argued he did while not in uniform and got court martialed. But if active can't say anything at all, then this wouldn't even be an issue. It would open up others though and I don't think we want to go down that route.</div></div><div style="color: rgb(77, 77, 77); font-size: 12px;"><br></div><div style="color: rgb(77, 77, 77); font-size: 12px;">That is the basis of my question. Whew, sorry for the long response!</div>
Politics
Law
Edited 12 y ago
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 39
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My take on this question, isn't "If" military members should be in a political party, but rather why aren't they?? The biggest line I've seen in this thread, is the 'in or out of uniform' issue. Also, you can't solicit for your party at work.
However, just because are in the military, doesn't mean you give up your rights to free speech!
You are allowed to disagree with your president/congress/senate representatives. You are still required to do your job. If you live in the barracks you might have a harder time if you want to have a 'young democrats' meeting, but that doesn't mean you can't go downtown and either rent a room for a private event, or just go for coffee.
Civic duty is just that-duty.
I think it is time for another thread about political correctness in the military-the greatest threat to America there is!
However, just because are in the military, doesn't mean you give up your rights to free speech!
You are allowed to disagree with your president/congress/senate representatives. You are still required to do your job. If you live in the barracks you might have a harder time if you want to have a 'young democrats' meeting, but that doesn't mean you can't go downtown and either rent a room for a private event, or just go for coffee.
Civic duty is just that-duty.
I think it is time for another thread about political correctness in the military-the greatest threat to America there is!
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You do not give up your right to vote, except when a certain party in each state fails to send absentee ballots or sends flawed absentee ballots that will not be counted to GOP registered (ooops I meant to say to the other party) overseas military, or sends the GOP (oops did it again) late so they wont get back in time.
In many states, you have to be one party or the other to vote in the primaries.
Speaking out in uniform is a different issue. It should not be done, however, if someone in their civies does speak out there should not be sanctions against them.
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SSG Ray Elliott
This type of voter suppression isn't just a Democratic thing, I remember not too many years ago when the presidential election was decided by a very close vote, in a State where the future president's brother was governor. There were many absentee ballots thrown out in that election as well.
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Military should be able to join political parties; after all they vote based on their political beliefs.
The line, however, must be drawn as to NOT represent the "military" when taking part in such political groups. If they're going to attend a function they should not be allowed to wear a uniform; unless retired or separated.
Military members should be allowed to attend political meetings and get their voice across, but should not be allowed to take part in a protest or rally where possible arrest could be made if it got out of control.
Finally, their involvement in political groups should not interfere with their military duties.
That is my stance on military service members and political groups.
The line, however, must be drawn as to NOT represent the "military" when taking part in such political groups. If they're going to attend a function they should not be allowed to wear a uniform; unless retired or separated.
Military members should be allowed to attend political meetings and get their voice across, but should not be allowed to take part in a protest or rally where possible arrest could be made if it got out of control.
Finally, their involvement in political groups should not interfere with their military duties.
That is my stance on military service members and political groups.
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Every Service Member has the right to join a political party. They just have to be careful where they express their political opinions and voice. As with all Federal employees, Service Members must abide by the Hatch law. Actively participating in the political process while wearing the uniform presents the impression of endorsement and is prohibited. While on Active Duty Service Members and Federal employees are prohibited from running for political office. That does not apply to Reservists and National Guard members. The most important thing a Service can do is to express their opinions by voting.
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This is an interesting post. I accept the limits on my freedom of speech and expression while I serve my country. I understand, as most Service Members do, that the military cannot be seen as taking sides in political debates. When one shows up to a political event in uniform, it sends a message to the country that the military supports the event's agenda.
The military must be seen as serving the country, not a political party. The Commander-in-Chief changes out every 4-8 years and the position is occupied by people of different political parties and different views. Whether we like those views or not is irrelevant. We serve under the Commander-in-Chief whether we agree with his/her policies or not. As long as the military orders are not illegal or immoral we have a duty to obey those orders despite our personal opinions.
I do my best to keep my personal political opinions within my own house, but some years are harder than others.
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Major Chang,
I would suggest Looking into FM 27-14 http://cdm16635.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/p16635coll8/id/55414
on page 2 it tells what you can and cannot do I would also advise you confide in your local JAG office so as not to place your carrer on the line.
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Sir, it's very simple. You should advocate for any position you choose. Just don't do it in uniform. Why would you? I suspect you'd find it inappropriate for a soldier to march in a gay pride parade in uniform, and you'd be right. Likewise it's inappropriate for you to advocate for your party while in uniform. If for no other reason it gives the civilian population, which is woefully ignorant of us, the impression that the military as a body endorses a particular political stance. Here's another way to think of it; the uniform isn't yours. It belongs to Uncle Sugar, and he gets to decide what you do with it. Another consideration is this: POTUS is our CinC. Whether we like him or not, he's in our CoC. Would you, as a professional commissioned officer, find it appropriate to campaign against any other superior officer? Frankly, I'm curious as to why a commissioned officer, a professional, wants to advocate for a political party in uniform. I can't help but wonder if you want to exploit the privilege of your commission for political gain. That's why I'm giving your question the "thumbs down".
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LTC David S. Chang, ChFC®, CLU®
Good to speak your mind and if I read in between the lines it could be a shot at me for my position in politics now or the perception that I advocate people speaking out while in uniform for political gain which is incorrect. My question was whether or not speaking at all while on active duty should be allowed and to prevent mistakes from happening where military get caught like General McCrystal did.
I am in the guard so I can hold the position I do now, but when on orders, my staff and state cmte know that I will not respond or do things that violate my orders.
I am a big believer that the lines between the military and civilian sector should be separate and the civilian side with the authority over the military like our constitution grants. This is why Lincoln fired McClellan and Truman fired MacArthur, both generals were out of line regardless of what you think of their military strategy.
My question had nothing to do with being in uniform, but getting involved at all. When I was a cadet at West Point, there was a vocal minority that active duty military personnel should not get to vote at all. They had a debate that we all had to attend as part of the class and of course we were all against it.
They did bring up a good point. Military officers historically tend to be Republican, libertarian, conservative. When Clinton was in office, his staff was known to routinely speak against the military and one senior staffer told one of the top generals that "we don't speak to military personnel." (From Colin Powell's biography). Many liberals historically have disliked the military because it tended to skew towards conservatives. The minority that said military should not be able to vote was to prevent any perception that officers were conservative because of their votes.
It is not about exploiting for political gain, but about maintaining a system where we promote that the military is apolitical, and its members may have to give up that right because of it. If they do have to give up the right, where is the line? Right now the line is when not in uniform, you can do what you can do, but in uniform you can't. However one marine got in trouble because he spoke out against POTUS on facebook and wouldn't take it down when asked to by his chain of command. He argued he did while not in uniform. But if active can't say anything at all, then this wouldn't even be an issue. It would open up others though.
That is what my question is about. I hope this clears my question up for you.
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Sgt Mark Ramos
Maj C, It appears everyone here is pretty clear on the regs. But your question seems to be more nuanced. I separated as a Sgt 26 years ago, and my views most definitely changed since then. My friends and neighbors enjoy engaging in political conversation. But, my neighbor who is a Lt. Col steers clear of political topics. Her husband, who separated from the Marine Corp, steers clear of political conversations. They tactfully avoid the issue, even with civilians. Her eyes are on a star.
So you have to ask yourself what you want. If you want a solid career and advancement, vote for the best candidates, but keep you secret ballot secret.
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CPT Endre Barath
I find the answer is clear Active Duty Soldiers should and need to be allowed to Vote and be Members of a Political Party. After all they defend the very Political Process. It is clear Soldiers are not the only profession who can not and should not discuss politics....as a Realtor it is not in the best interest for me to take a political position since that could clearly distract from the sales process....now with that said I miss my father and my father in law with whom I used to discuss politics, the economy and life liberty and the pursuit of happiness... great question BTW, Endre
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absolutely NOT, we join the service to support the commander in chief and do what he tells us.
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TSgt Brian Herman
It would be up to the cabinet JCS, and yet, "When the President does it, it isn't against the law". (Paraphrasing Richard Nixon)
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SPC Christopher Smith
A Government for the people by the people. If the people say the President is not right in making a order, or creating a law. It is his place to resend that order or law. He does not control total power, their are systems in place to control and limit his actions.
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SSG Kevin McCulley
I did NOT join to support ANY commander-in-chief. I joined to support and defend my nation. Who sits in the chair is ancillary.
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SFC Randy Purham
It is allowed to be affiliated with political parties. I have been for years and it is publically known. However, the distinction is that we should not be "actively engaged" in political events in uniform. Regardless of who is President or any Officer appointed over us.
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Clearly, so long as it is not obvious on the base and you never wear a uniform to any function.
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