Posted on Mar 12, 2014
SPC 92 Gulf
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SSG Pod Load Technician
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YES!!!!! Pinch test and the water dunk test have proven effective.  But sadly the Army will use the cheap method which is BS and unfair
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MAJ FAO - Europe
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Yes.

As many have commented, the real issue here is the way the military measures body fat (with the tape test) and how the military bases who is "fat" or "overweight" based on the tape test. There is NO science to the tape test, studies have shown that it can be off by up to 15%. We can do better.

The argument against hydrostatic body fat measurements is usually that they are too hard to do or that the equipment costs too much. Some knowledge is required to use these systems, and they do cost a bit more than the tape used for a tape test. But they aren't that difficult to operate and they aren't that expensive, really. Remember, this is the DoD, which has a multi-billion dollar annual budget. I just did a google search; the first hydrostatic setup I found (http://www.vacumed.com/zcom/product/Product.do?compid=27&prodid=296) costs about $25,000. If DoD bought 2,000 of these, that would cost $50 million. Add in a couple million for annual maintenance, upgrade, repair, etc, and we could probably have a DoD-wide set of these for about $100 million. Chump change in the DoD budget.

The other argument against using technology to measure body fat is that the tape test can be used in austere environments, such as deployments. I've deployed a few times, and each time, not only were APFT requirements waived during the deployment, but so were height and weight requirements. So, I don't buy this argument, either.
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CW2 Network Management Technician
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Yes. All of the "veteran fat boys" know all of the tricks for passing tape (sauna, bodywraps, dehydration, no eating the day before, "cleansing" products, neck slapping....) , when they know they shouldn't be able to.

Here is an example of a flaw with the current system. One time I saw a 5'4" guy, 200+ pounds, with a 40+" waist pass because he had a 21" neck. He actually came in with a lower BF% than me.....
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PO2 Tony Casler
PO2 Tony Casler
>1 y
There was a PO1 on my ship who was about 6'4" and pushing 400lb, he always managed to just slide in under body fat % by having a huge neck and convenient injuries kept him from ever participating in the PFT. I tend to agree with 1stSgt Nolan above, keep standards high and let performance be the indicator.
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SSG Multichannel Transmission Systems Operator/Maintainer
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Why not use http://www.amazon.com/My-Weigh-Galileo-Digital-Scale/dp/B004C3CRCK. It is fast and easily as accurate as the way we do it now.
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SSG Jason Deters
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YES.  I say all branches should use the Pillsbury method.  place the index finger one inch below the belly button and press firmly.  The depth of impression is measured and recorded.  If the soldier sounds off with "HMMMM HMMMM" the soldier is placed on a weight control program.

Seriously though, the tape method is not completely accurate but is more practical than other more accurate methods such as the displacement test.
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SGT Budget Analyst
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I am not sure of a better method because I am not to educated on this I just wanted to come here to post this quote: "You can't out work bad nutrition". As many have said eating right is more important than PT. I have never been taped because I obsess over health. You have one body, take care of it.

 

Also, I am not talking about people with legit disabilities. I know it can be a struggle for soldier with combat injuries / injuries in general.



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1SG Michael Blount
1SG Michael Blount
10 y
SPC - you're absolutely right. You can't out-PT a bad diet. Period. End of story. I don't know the exact numbers, but if I had to guess, improved diet is about 75-80% of weight loss; PT accounts for the rest.  With a 3:1 ratio at the low end, and more like 4:1 at the high end, you'd be foolish not to change diet. 
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SGT Budget Analyst
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10 y
Hooah 1SG!
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PO2 Rocky Kleeger
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I know that the Navy sure does.  I'm 61", and according to the Navy I can only weigh 147lbs.  So, now we go to the tape and their formula says I'm at 19% BMI.  The calipers, which are a more accurate way to go, say I"m 14%.  
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SSG Multichannel Transmission Systems Operator/Maintainer
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>1 y
How do you know how hard to squeeze the calipers? I can get readings from 14 percent to 35 percent when I try to use them.
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SSG Laureano Pabon
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Personally why test? if testing is all that is going to be done, then what is the purpose behind, I would say. What the army needs to do is find out what causes weight gain and how to lose it. But then we all know the answer for that, so why test.

First what do you gain for being over weight?

one can gain many harmful physical conditions that may be too late to recover from, making it harder for the SM whom has a weight problem lose the weight he needs to lose to meet standards. I'm not a Doctor or Physician to make statements but I know many people I know that are over weight do have the hardest time losing that weight.

I personally can make recommendations, but when they are not taken, I gather that they seem to enjoy being over weight and not taking the matter serious until a heart condition or diabetes kicks in and its too late.

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SGT 94 E Radio Comsec Repairer
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No, because while the tape test is not very accurate percentage-wise, it's the quickest and most cost effective way to gauge if someone has too much fat.  Even if you're 60 pounds over your max as most bodybuilders are, you will not fail the tape test unless you're actually fat.  The abs don't lie.
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SFC Communications Chief (S6)
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10 y
If the test fails to accurately measure what its supposed to, its cost effectiveness is useless

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SPC Supply Specialist (S4)
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Not sure about the BMI tests, but I would not be opposed to a new APFT.  Maybe one day it will be changed, or at the very least revised.
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LTC Operations Officer (Opso)
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10 y
I've been in almost 9 years now not including ROTC time and they must have come up with "new" APFT about five times and "we are so close". Will probably not happen in our careers.
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1SG Michael Blount
1SG Michael Blount
10 y
CPT/PFC - One reason the APFT won't be changed is TRADOC.  They're afraid their graduation numbers will go down if the test is changed in any significant way.  That's why the last set of proposed changes bit the dust.
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