Should Army officers be required to obtain Specialist before being allowed to commission?

YES PLEASE, weed out them dimwits that put the lost in LT. I got sick very quickly of the immaturity of some officers. Like how is this not already a regulation because of how much power an officer has?

It would be nice to have someone who knows the job first, before putting him in charge of it.

I voted ROTC is enough, though not exactly my true thoughts.

You know, that's a really interesting question...I've mentioned a good deal on other threads about such stuff that when I was USAF OTS after Army ROTC, the prior-enlisted guys all generally did have an easier time adjusting, God knows I've reflected on whether I would've also...one guy in the class right after the one I'd finished in, I got recycled once, actually finished fairly recently, I'd read, as an O-10, I'd seen that a few months back...I suppose, being honest about it, on reflection, that having been serious prior enlisted first would also more than likely have done me a world of good, rather than just going in straight out of Army ROTC...another thought I've had, not that I'm gonna be agreed with, I get that, is that, if somebody wanting to go in is from a state with a state defense force (SDF), I realize not all states have them, that I'd really seriously encourage their use, to let those seeking to go in get at least a taste...I entirely realize SDFs aren't quite the same, I entirely appreciate that, however, being as most SDFs apparently let their members go if they get accepted for a Federal branch, as I understand it, God knows, I wish I'd known the NY Guard (NYG) existed by us before I'd ever gone Federal, I'm not saying it's a perfect orientation alternative, I'm just pointing out a thought I've had that it's apparently possibly quite underused in that regard, that's my only point, honest...as I'd said, I realize I'm likely not gonna be agreed with on that, honest, it was just idle musing on my part, something I've reflected on, as I'd said...I answered here being enlisted with no rank requirement here, only as I'd thought that was at least reasonably closest to my thoughts as I've reflected on the whole thing over an extended period...I'd known many prior enlisted, both USAF, as well as other svcs, incl all the way up through CMSgt, go through with me when I was at USAF OTS...typically, from what I saw, pretty much regardless of rank, the prior enlisted guys all generally tended to adjust far more readily than I was ever able to, honest....

No

Yes, I think they should have some kind of enlisted experience, but that would definitely ensure the imminent phasing of the WO class as a whole. When in actuality, it'd be more realistic to phase out OCS instead.

I’m a Marine and it really isn’t my place to tell Army folks what they should do. So I’m not going to vote but as a mustang officer I can relate some observations about life as a troop, life as an officer and the expectations placed on each that might be helpful to those interested in this discussion. Bear with me, I’m on my phone and can only see three lines at a time so it may get wordy. I can’t edit my response, so until I get to a computer this will have to do. I have a lot of thoughts to share and will clean it up and make it more concise when I get a chance. Until then, here goes:

As an enlisted person going through boot camp, you are evaluated on how well you follow orders. At OCS, you are expected to be able to follow orders. You are evaluated on how well you receive orders from your superiors AND decipher commanders intent, prioritize tasks and issue orders to those under you to accomplish mission objectives. Billets rotate constantly and you must be able to get your peers to follow your lead and your peers get to evaluate your leadership. You might be a rifleman on point and next billet you might be company commander, and then drop to squad leader. You have to be nice and help those peers getting evaluated if you want the same cooperation when you are filling a billet being evaluated.

I don’t know how the Army handles officer training but if I were to extrapolate my observations from other interactions with the Army before I retired, I’d say they are probably incorporating some of the things we did in their training...

Initially, prior enlisted have an advantage but by the time you hit Captain the differences become almost negligible. I’ve heard both Army and Marine Corps Officers say this and it is my experience as well.

I have met officers that were every bit as good as the prior enlisted (even as lieutenants!) and I have met some that couldn’t convince a platoon to follow them out of a burning house!

Luckily most bad officers get weeded out in the Marines before they hit the Fleet Marine Force. They are generally in school 8-12 months before being put in charge of troops and tend to get weeded out in school...

Navy Officers don’t get the benefit of the leadership training mandated in the Marines and for them it is literally sink or swim. It’s brutal being an Ensign... and of all the service branches they would probably benefit the most from prior enlisted experience. They don’t get much respect from anyone. And they must earn every bit get! A chief can ruin an ensign’s career in a heartbeat. I felt sorry for the ensigns...

Some of you aren’t going to want to hear this but it’s the truth... The training officers receive (at least in the USMC) is a LOT more rigorous because they expect officers to be able to set a good example and be in as good or better shape than the troops they are leading. It is tougher being an officer because there are no excuses for poor performance or not knowing something. Your lack of physical conditioning should never be an excuse for not being able to keep up with your troops. There is no such thing as a “lead from behind” leadership style (despite Obama’s describing his leadership style as that?!!). Real leaders set the example and lead by their example — from the front! They take charge and are resourceful. They should not wait to be told something needs to be done. They are expected to take initiative and seek appropriate guidance if there is something they don’t understand to ensure successful completion of the tasks at hand. As troops, you can say you didn’t know something and get away with it. It doesn’t work when you’re an officer.

It was much easier for me to shine as a troop and the competition is much more fierce in the officer ranks. Most officers are not prior enlisted so while I would like to say all officers should have prior enlisted experience I would be dishonest to say that it should be a requirement. There are lots of incredibly sharp and talented officers that do just fine without it. I have also seen prior enlisted officers that couldn’t stop thinking and acting like their troops.

You don’t get respect by being one of the guys because the troops will use it to get over on you. You have to switch gears and the best thing an officer can do is to be real and be professional. You have to maintain a professional distance because familiarity breeds contempt. There’s a fine line you have to walk and it has its pluses and minuses. The highs are higher and lows are lower.

For those who are disciplined, put their training to use and become proficient in their duties and are mission oriented, the cream always floats to the top and that applies to both officers AND enlisted personnel.

Different expectations are put on officers and officers do get to experience what enlisted are expected to do because (at least in the USMC) officers are tasked to fill all the billets in training and they generally know what to expect from the troops. Junior officers might be a little disappointed to find out that the troops aren’t quite as in-shape as their peers at OCS... or as motivated to make a career out of the military but it doesn’t take long for them to adjust their expectations and figure out what they can realistically expect their troops to do.

So while it generally helps to have prior enlisted experience, it can hurt if you can’t make the adjustment and continue thinking like a troop... no offense. That is not to say officers are better, but they have a different job to perform and different expectations placed on them. It takes both to make troops and officers to make everything work right.

I do believe we have too many officers now. For Marines the ratio should be about 1:11 or 1:12 overall and in combat infantry units even fewer officers to enlisted. The Air Wing kind of skews the ratio because of the pilots. The Air Force ratio of 3:1 is flat excessive. When you have to create billets at the Pentagon to stash all your excess brass and have colonels making coffee for generals... it’s time to start looking at trimming the fat.

Well that’s my $.02 and if you want a cup of coffee you’ll need to kick in another $1 and some change. ; )

I would disagree with the idea. Do some officers need to learn to be more humble after their commission yes. However, forcing them to be enlisted First is more of a detriment than a benefit. The military is to stubborn of a institution to allow only those that have serve before to be officers. Either way it is a double edge sword but the job of the Lt. Stubborn and hard headed as it may be still remains to bring revolutionary perspectives to the battle field. Some ideas are good others well at least there is a degree in innovation towards strategy

Nope

Not a requirement, no. I’ve known some mustang lieutenants that were worthless, just as I’ve seen some college kids turn out to be good officers.