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Command Post What is this?
Posted on Aug 13, 2017
MAJ Montgomery Granger
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SSG(P) Casualty Operations Ncoic
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IMHO, I think there was a serious lack of risk analysis and risk mitigation here, coupled with the "coach" chasing that idea that his workout is the toughest, most "Hooah" one going, all for bragging rights.

This is why, in the Army, we have Risk Assessments. This is also why we end up having dumb rules (no organized sports during PT hours) and dumb safety briefs.
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MAJ Montgomery Granger
MAJ Montgomery Granger
>1 y
Hooah!
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SPC Erich Guenther
SPC Erich Guenther
>1 y
I am sure the Football Team missed out on the "Accident Investigation" you know the one where they send a Major around with a clipboard and yellow legal pad to take legal statements from everyone, then assemble them into a larger report typed up.
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PFC Lisa McDonald
PFC Lisa McDonald
>1 y
Not to make light of the kids death but in the Army lack of Pt belt might have been considered a possible mitigating factor
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SSgt Data Systems Chief
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The way I see it, it wasn't special forces training—it was high school football camp training with a log. My scrawny boot camp ass did log exercises weighing a buck forty-five, so I'm sure those kids are more than capable as well. The only difference is that our hats told us not to drop the log on our heads.
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MAJ Montgomery Granger
MAJ Montgomery Granger
>1 y
I never did log drills. The first thing that came to mind when I saw it in a movie was that it looked hard, not that it was dangerous. I did rifle drills in Basic Training, and then litter drills during Combat Medic training. The litter drills were very demanding (and potentially dangerous for the "casualty"), but they were specific to a task we may be expected to perform as a Combat Medic. I think those types of experiences are more valuable that those that are not required on the job.
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SSgt Data Systems Chief
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>1 y
MAJ Montgomery Granger They're not fun at all, but only dangerous if you're extremely careless. I've done plenty of litter drills, both at Marine Combat Training and regular PT in the fleet, usually with some MCMAP (Marine combatives) thrown in. The worst was during our culminating event in Sgts course, which lasted about ten hours when we usually had a dead guy to carry while patrolling/running to our next objectives. Haha
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MAJ Montgomery Granger
MAJ Montgomery Granger
>1 y
According to local police reports the log actually weighed 400 pounds. That's 80 pounds each for five boys. When we did litter drills we always picked the runt as a casualty. Four men with 180 pound buddy is 45 pounds each. Consequences of failure? A pissed off buddy. If you have done litter drills or even rifle drills, or changed an ornery light fixture or used a pole saw, you know that lifting anything over your head for an extended period can lead to muscle failure in minutes. Now do it with 80 pounds - and that's only assuming everybody is actually lifting his 80. One man fails and it's 100. Looks like in this case more than one boy failed, led by the adults who were morally and legally responsible for their health, welfare and safety.
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PFC Lisa McDonald
PFC Lisa McDonald
>1 y
I was an Infantry midget. I went in at 17 weighing 121 lbs and just shy of 5 ft 7.
We did log drills and firemen's carry as well as well as rappelling with an injured soldier.
I always got stuck with the biggest guy.
He had it easy as pie carrying me! The last guy I remember firemen's carrying weighed 235 and was around 6 ft tall.
I get your points Major and support your position that they should be getting age appropriate training.
Its sad how many kids are dying doing sports.
We have been slowly realizing that full mental maturity does not happen until the 20's if not even the early thirties
The person training them needs to be mature and understand what they are working with
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SGT Kevin Berman
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I think until all the details are out, we ought to relax - I don't think it is confirmed that the log weighed 250lbs, or something less. I didn't see any name associated with the 'training staff', so can't tell if the trainers were certified.
My son has participated in this type of strength training for football the last 3 years - at least the trainers were from a local cross fit gym that we knew and all had certifications.

Accidents happen - unless the investigation finds neglect, that's all it is.

BTW - the log drill is not exclusive to SEAL training. The log pit at SFAS was an experience I'll never forget.
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SGT Kevin Berman
SGT Kevin Berman
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I don't see the log drill as being exclusively 'military training' - whether it was poor judgment will come out of the investigation, whether the trainers were properly certified will come out, whether there was negligence will come out. And yes, the Leaders are ultimately responsible -
I think we're on the same page Major.
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CPT Assistant Operations Officer (S3)
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It is a regular part of Fleet Marine Force PT and have even done it in the Guard...add the acronym SEAL and it instantly becomes crazy. Not sure if it was appropriate for football or even done correctly, but it's senstationalism to some degree. I can't imagine what the parents are going through.
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MAJ Montgomery Granger
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SGM Erik Marquez
SGM Erik Marquez
>1 y
MAJ Montgomery Granger "So you're condoning military training for high school youth?"
Again, still, using a log to condition is NOT a military training exclusive, never was, never has been, never will be.. It is used IN military conditioning, not specific to it.
Was it appropriate for this group of athletes? Thats what investigations are for and will answer. It is an appropriate conditioning drill to exercise team work, self introspection and muscular strength and endurance..all things a foot ball team needs.

https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&hs=Qa7&q=wooden+log+workouts&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiO97WZxOPVAhUn0YMKHdiYD2YQ1QIIZCgE&biw=1326&bih=629
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