Posted on Mar 15, 2016
Should I report unprofessional behavior through the Chain of Command or an IG complaint?
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NOTE: Member wished to be disassociated from this subject so it has been reposted here with the original comments.
Thank you,
-RP Staff
Recently was involved in an one way exchange with a CPT in which she directed towards a Senior NCO (SFC) in a derogatory, belittling and denigrating expressing her personal feelings toward such SFC. Since this is to get get a general consensus of what should be done, I would like to leave out names and places out but can include that the CPT's comments towards the SFC included: "you are a sorry a$$ excuse of an NCO", " you are the biggest piece of $hit I know" and continued to go on not just about such Senior NCO but included the family members.
Considering that if this was a lower to an NCO doing this, the Soldier would be crucified. If this was an NCO to an officer?, someone would be out of a job.
I heard one day that the moment you lose your bearing you lost the argument. So the SFC did the right thing by keeping professionally quiet and bringing up to the supervisor. Situation is now: such CPT has gone around telling Soldiers how "she ripped in to this SFC with a grin"...
What would be some appropriate ways to handle this situation?
Thank you,
-RP Staff
Recently was involved in an one way exchange with a CPT in which she directed towards a Senior NCO (SFC) in a derogatory, belittling and denigrating expressing her personal feelings toward such SFC. Since this is to get get a general consensus of what should be done, I would like to leave out names and places out but can include that the CPT's comments towards the SFC included: "you are a sorry a$$ excuse of an NCO", " you are the biggest piece of $hit I know" and continued to go on not just about such Senior NCO but included the family members.
Considering that if this was a lower to an NCO doing this, the Soldier would be crucified. If this was an NCO to an officer?, someone would be out of a job.
I heard one day that the moment you lose your bearing you lost the argument. So the SFC did the right thing by keeping professionally quiet and bringing up to the supervisor. Situation is now: such CPT has gone around telling Soldiers how "she ripped in to this SFC with a grin"...
What would be some appropriate ways to handle this situation?
Chain of Command
JAG
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 258
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Sounds like the O is putting her nose in 1SG's business ...and any 1SG worth his/her salt isn't going to tolerate it for an instant. I actually witnessed a 1SG tell a "butter bar" to keep his "officer's nose" out of his first sergeant's business ...of course that was a future Ranger Hall of Fame Inductee telling off the officer so these kind of guys are few and far between.
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Had the same problem with a LT. before I retired I noted everything he did then took a trip over to the command master chiefs office and had a long discussion with him about this LT. The master chief noticed I was about three months out from retiring so he gave me tad orders to his office and the reason for this is because he knew as well as I did this LT just out right hated me for no good reason. it only took three weeks after I was gone for this LT to get relived this guy just stepped on his own dick. So I suggest you follow your chain of command it is always your best corse of action
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Taking a little different approach to this than others. I don't think we have a good situation understanding/awareness. Is this a reserve unit or active duty? What is the professional relationship to the officer? In the chain of command? Why are you comparing the officer's action to and NCO doing the same to an officer (or lower enlisted to NCO)? That's apples and oranges. Is the NCO actually a sorry excuse? What was the reference to family? You have others quotes, but none reference to that. Family is obviously off limits, but want to confirm the truth to it. Seems like an add on statement. Was the initial incident in private or public?
So, we have one side of the sorry. It's important to get a good SU. I've seen before of privates butthurt about an NCO making a legitimate correction, taking the complaint to the commander, and a knee jerk reaction to reprimand a good NCO.
Assuming this is true, which could be as I've seen in the past, here are some option:
-Regardless, first try to have a conversation with the officer (when neither is heated by emotion). Be the adult if they aren't. Hope this was done earlier.
-If conversation doesn't work and not in COC, follow up with your COC.
-If in COC, ask for open door policy to see higher commander.
Reserves are slower than active duty. If going IG, be sure the officer isn't right about the NCO, as everything will come out.
So, we have one side of the sorry. It's important to get a good SU. I've seen before of privates butthurt about an NCO making a legitimate correction, taking the complaint to the commander, and a knee jerk reaction to reprimand a good NCO.
Assuming this is true, which could be as I've seen in the past, here are some option:
-Regardless, first try to have a conversation with the officer (when neither is heated by emotion). Be the adult if they aren't. Hope this was done earlier.
-If conversation doesn't work and not in COC, follow up with your COC.
-If in COC, ask for open door policy to see higher commander.
Reserves are slower than active duty. If going IG, be sure the officer isn't right about the NCO, as everything will come out.
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SPC Andrew Kutnink
Just reading your reply to the action is exactly what one person wrote, officers stick together. Regardless what this NCO did, he did not retaliate by yelling or cursing at the officer, the officer said BAD things about the NCOs family and was doing this in public. It does not matter what was done prior, where it was done or who it involved or even if they were/had a relationship of certain degrees. What the officer did was disrespectful and the way she did it was unacceptable. My unit was completely belittled by a Lt Col at NTC because we were a brand new unit, active duty and were of course getting ready for deployment. He sent a few groups out to set stuff up without sending water or food for the soldiers and when he was questioned he said they would be find and to send them. We had atleast 20 soldiers with various ranks upto SFC get sent back due to different heat injuries due to no water. Sat out in the box for 4 extra days with virtually no water cause one officer lost his nvgs and 1 officer losing his 9mm back in the rear. Once we got back he berated us telling us we were absolute shit and worst unit he has ever been attached to yadah yadah. He lost his position as soon as we got back to our base.
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The Chain of Command is always the place to begin. If I had witnessed this in my day that Captain and I would have had an offline discussion behind a closed door - respectful but direct. Sergeants Major and Master Sergeants are normally seasoned and can often rectify it at the lowest level. Of course it can be elevated if the captain fails to understand her shortfall and apologize. Most senior officers like it when they know that an attempt was made before it being brought to their attention.
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She should be thankful the SFC maintained his composure. I've had a similar situation and it didn't go well for the officer. Remember if you open that door of disrespect there may be someone willing to dress you down also. If you cursed me, you most likely got the same in return, and I wasn't concerned with your rank. Remember rank gives no one the privilege of being disrespectful.
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Report it. NO ONE should be treated with anything less than dignity and respect. CGOs are still being groomed for future leadership positions and toxic leadership is UNSAT.
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Report it to the Chain of Command. If they fail to take appropriate action, take it to the IG.
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As an "Old School" NCO, I remember a WWII vets CSM telling me as a young E4, If you ever want to get back at an officer, just wait for the right moment aND do EXACTLY what that young Officer tells you. No more, no less. It will work out...... (smile )
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SGM Robin Johnson
When I joined back in 1980 that is what we were taught! I told my first Platoon Leader that - that if he kept treating the Soldiers like he was they would do exactly what he told them to do. He said 'That's all I want!" and I told him "You think so now..." After the dry run for the ARTEP (for those of us dinosaurs who remember those) went about as you would expect he was having a conniption and I said "But they did EXACTLY what you told them to do, to the letter." Then we had a talk. (The ARTEP went great - we knew our business, but he got the point.)
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First and foremost is the chain of command. Since it is the CPT doing it and going as far as bringing in PERSONAL LIFE into an argument said CPT should face a reprimand board. Since the SFC CAN'T report it to the CPT he must then address it too the MASTER SGT. If that fails it should be reported to the FIRST SGT. If not resolved that way they must continue on up the ladder until it is resolved. Sounds like the CPT has blatant disrespect for this particular SFC.
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