Posted on Jan 24, 2017
SFC Jim Ruether
12.4K
69
35
5
5
0
Posted in these groups: Air combat art 0134 CombatResponsibility logo Responsibility
Avatar feed
Responses: 15
SPC Todd Fitzgerald
5
5
0
Also, here is his own lawyer admitting that he hid evidence.
("After the shooting, Lorance tried to hide evidence that the two dead Afghans were carrying proper identity, something the Taliban rarely do. "He told his soldiers to forget they saw the IDs. That was wrong," said Womack.")
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-military-murder-idUSBRE97115V20130802

Note: All my sources are dated from the trial, as they are direct sources and not second hand, or worse, from the attorney and family representing a criminal. I myself was there personally, testified, and was quoted by the Army Times and New York Times. No other media organizations have reached out for our side. Fox News is presenting a false narrative and should be embarrassed for their lack of integrity and research, these articles can easily be found by searching chronologically.
(5)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
LTC Psychological Operations Officer
4
4
0
From the article:
His own soldiers, however, paint a much different picture: They claim their platoon leader was ignorant, overzealous and out of control. That he hated the Afghan people and that he had spent recent days tormenting the locals and issuing death threats.
Lorance had a setback on Dec. 31, when the commander of the 82nd Airborne Division reduced Lorance's his sentence — but just by one year — and upheld the guilty verdict, effectively sending the case to the U.S. Army Court of Criminal Appeals.
"Maj. Gen. Richard Clarke carefully reviewed the facts of US v. Lorance, to include the clemency requests submitted in August, October, November and December 2014," said Maj. Crystal Boring, a spokeswoman for the XVIII Airborne Corps, in a statement. "After an in-depth study of the case, he upheld the guilty verdict from the court martial panel and directed one year off the original sentence of 20 years confinement due to post-trial delay."

So his own troops thought he was an ignorant asshole out for blood; a court marital panel considered all the evidence and found him guilty of murder; and the commander of the 82d abn division reviewed all the evidence and agreed. So why exactly would anyone be on the side of letting this murderer go, much less calling him a hero? The fact is that some people commit crimes in wartime; we lose all our values if we take the position that any American who kills any civilian is automatically cleared because war.
(4)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
CSM Chuck Stafford
4
4
0
I would have to defer to the Courts Martial panel. We are a nation of laws; they saw the evidence and made their decision. The disposition of other cases has no bearing on this case - if the young Soldier was wrong, he was wrong.
(4)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
Avatar feed
Should Lt. Clint Lorance be pardoned, released from Leavenworth and the charges dropped for following a lawful order?
Student
3
3
0
For those who are curious Clint Lorance ordered his men to open fire on a trio of men on a motorcycle who were coming towards his checkpoint. A court martial declared that the men were not enemy combatants and he was charged with second degree murder.

There is some controversy as its speculated his men only testified against him because they were granted immunity. There is also some talk about the prosecution withholding evidence but I haven't been able to find relevant articles about specifics.
(3)
Comment
(0)
MSG Intermediate Care Technician
MSG (Join to see)
9 y
SPC Todd Fitzgerald - You're the Fitzgerald I read in the article?
(1)
Reply
(0)
SPC Todd Fitzgerald
(1)
Reply
(0)
MSG Intermediate Care Technician
MSG (Join to see)
9 y
SPC Todd Fitzgerald - I certainly don't envy the situation you were in for that incident and the trial.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Student
(Join to see)
9 y
SPC Todd Fitzgerald - Sorry for getting it wrong. This was what I was able to find online. It seems the media really had a field day changing around details of the story. Thanks for the link.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SPC Todd Fitzgerald
2
2
0
Alright, first of all, it wasn't a lawful order. Second of all, when you say "I had heard...", it holds no weight whatsoever and your opinion is largely irrelevant to the facts. The motorcycle was not speeding towards us, nor was it even driving in our direction, when Clint had the men murdered. They were local villager elders that we had been working with for some months. He harassed, threatened, and murdered them without justification and then worked to attempt to cover up his crimes by lying and trying to order others to send up false reports. They had actually come up to our base to complain about being shot at the day before (under orders from Lorance) when he threatened to kill them and they then left to go back to their village, which was right before we stepped out on the patrol where he ordered a gun truck to engage them AFTER they had stopped and got off their bikes. So before you make unfounded comments and tell fabricated narratives to defend a guy convicted of SEVERAL crimes including murder, maybe you should consider the weight of those of us who did the right thing. Twenty two witnesses, nine from the ground, myself included, and I was never threatened or granted immunity as the shitbag lawyer representing him is claiming. Just to show that I'm not making this shit up, here is the fifth in of a series of articles that were written by the local paper (Fayetteville Observer) during and after the court martial proceedings and from inside the courtroom.

http://www.stripes.com/news/us/army-lieutenant-sentenced-to-20-years-for-afghan-killings-1.233529
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
MSG Intermediate Care Technician
2
2
0
What lawful order was the LT following when he ordered his men to engage people that were moving back to their motorcycle?
(2)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SFC Jim Ruether
2
2
0
He's been in prison in Leavenworth for 908 days and counting? Where was his pardon when Obama was commuting Brad/Chelsea Mannings conviction for being a traitor? Where was the compassion and fairness when a convicted traitor rates higher than a hero soldier just following his orders to protect his soldiers?
(2)
Comment
(0)
LTC Kevin B.
LTC Kevin B.
9 y
I'm not familiar with the case, but from quickly reading through some stories about the case, I'll have to defer to those who had access to all of the evidence and heard all of the testimonies....the people on the Court Martial panel and the CG.

With that being said, this is all in President Trump's hands now. He could pardon him at any time.
(2)
Reply
(0)
LTC Kevin B.
LTC Kevin B.
9 y
SFC Jack S. - I see that my point completely went over your head.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SSG Aircraft Mechanic
1
1
0
He was made an example of because the news that came out about the incident made the administration look bad (as if it needed help with that).
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SPC Member
1
1
0
You never know, an appeal could be made to the President to have him pardoned.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
LTC Stephen Conway
1
1
0
could you include the story?
(1)
Comment
(0)
SFC Jim Ruether
SFC Jim Ruether
9 y
Thanks for posting the additional information. I still believe this young man should be exonerated and released. Who knows what frame of mind he was in. Maybe when the three men continued to advance towards the patrol he took that as a threat. Maybe when they moved back towards their motorcycle it was wired with a charge of C-4 or Semtex and they intended to blow the patrol up? Was the bike checked out or was it taken away? I know that Bradley/Chelsea Manning may be responsible for many more deaths because of his/her leaks to the internet about operatives and their operations around the globe. How does a president make the call about a known and convicted traitor and someone who made a snap decision on the battlefield to give clemency to one and not the other.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close