Posted on Dec 21, 2013
Should NCOERs and OERs contain more feedback from the troops?
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Responses: 27
As far as OERs go, I believe they should contain some form of feedback from their subordinates. I've seen many officers get promoted into positions of great responsibility, and they were little more than schoolyard bullies who treated their subordinates horribly. However, because they were evaluated based on a) results flowing from those very soldiers and b) their relationship with their bosses, they continued to move up the ladder. The manner in which they climbed the ladder on the backs (and fingers, since I'm talking metaphorically) of their subordinates was completely missing on paper. I think that a valid performance appraisal system could easily be developed that incorporates some form of feedback from the troops, without providing them with an opportunity to completely undermine the evaluation process. The troops should have a say, and I don't think the current system allows that.
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1SG Michael Minton
current system allows it by the troops performance and mission accomplishments. Fail a mission and see how much input they have on your evaluation!
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CW2 (Join to see)
1SG Minton, I don't believe it's in a Soldier's "blood" to fail a mission just to burn an officer or NCO in order for that individual to get a bad rating on their evaluation. There are too many senior enlisted personnel to make the mission a success who are concerned for their own careers to allow something like that to happen.
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Not a chance. 99% of the time Soldiers don't know what the hell is going on. Honestly, I was the "cat's meow" when I was the PSG in my company, all the Soldiers thought I was the best NCO to ever walk the planet.
That isn't a comment to be condescending to you, but a SGT, SPC, even a SSG/SFC/LT PSG/PL has no idea (I didn't either until I got into the position) what it's like at that level and to expect someone to be able to accurately portray how you do your job is unreasonable.
Took over as 1SG for 16 months and people have NO IDEA what goes on at that level. They made some comments about how I "was never around" yet the job description had me in meetings like eight hours a day. They said "I don't fight for them" when in fact I had drop down blow out arguments with the BN and BDE CSM and CDRs standing up for them.
The thing is, I didn't feel the need to "brag" or boast about how much I was "doing" for them on a day to day basis so they took what they saw in face value and had no clue what was really going on.
At my Change of Responsibility my commander told everyone - "you have no idea the amount of effort that 1SG put in to every day at work and how much he cared for every single one of you...and some of you don't even realize how much he impacted your career." And that sums it up really.
My point here is, I busted my ass for my company...I did what I, two commanders, and my CSM/LTC thought was an awesome job.
Yet input from my NCOER might include those types of comments from people that have no clue what's going on at the 1SG/CDR level.
That isn't a comment to be condescending to you, but a SGT, SPC, even a SSG/SFC/LT PSG/PL has no idea (I didn't either until I got into the position) what it's like at that level and to expect someone to be able to accurately portray how you do your job is unreasonable.
Now if we are talking about sexual harassment, EO, etc...sure, yeah, but that kind of stuff should already be reflected on an NCOER anyhow.
Not to mention, someone like a 1SG who "has to be the bad guy" and do things like deny leave or tell people no to certain thing, which makes them "not like you" and make stupid comments...
360 assessments, command climate, sensing sessions, all of which could lead to a formal or informal investigation which eventually ends up on the NCOER...etc. Sure, use to take an inward look at your skills, but I'll be damned if some SGT out of my 178 man company that has no clue what I'm doing daily is going to have direct input on my NCOER as a 1SG.
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CSM (Join to see)
Touche' SFC Jones...Touche'!!!! When I was a Company 1SG, most of my troops thought I was the "anti-Christ" because I enforced standards aka "has to be the bad guy!" Now those same guys/gals that wanted to "put a brick in my windshied" back then send me emails or call me thanking me till this day because they didn't have a clue of what was going on outside of their left/right limits and now they're the ones who have to make decisions that Soldiers think may seem harsh presently but strategically it will set the conditions for years to come for a promising future!
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I'm not going to say thats dumb! Evaluations are results oriented reports, the troops performance is their best input to their leaders report! Leaders are not there to be our friend or let you do what you want, they are there to accomplish their mission and take care of their troops (good or bad). otherwise you end up with leaders wanting to be friends, hangout and not making the hard decisions because they want goodinput from their troops. Just because you dont like how a leader does something, should not affect his evaluations. that leaders superior is capable of evaluating a subordinate through observation and mission results. who ever heard of a floor worker deciding a CEO performance bonus? because it makes no sense in developing a well run company!
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