Posted on Feb 19, 2014
Should Officers be allowed to use first names and have hands in pockets around Enlisted Soldiers?
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I always made a point of getting on to my soldiers for doing it, telling them it was unprofessional within ear shot of the officer who did it. Some times they took the hint. Some times they didn't. Beyond that, I ignored it. It wasn't much of a problem in our battery though as our command team was pretty squared away when it came to letting junior officers know they should be setting the standards.
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On the first name thing.....if we're gonna set the standard on everything, it needs to be everything, if its accepted because of tradition, change the regs.
As far as the hands in pockek think.....I think that's self explanatory
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SFC Rollie Hubbard
When I was a platoon sgt. the first question asked when I saw hands in pocket was are you playing pocket pool young troop?
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The short response, Hell no! I would correct the straight away and if you approach and bering is spot on what can they say? It reminds me of my boss asking me to discipline the younger troops on their dress and appearance, he never seemed to have a decent looking starched uniform, forget about the haircut. I was the epitome of dress and appearance and everyone in the unit was well aware of it. No Respect for that officer REGARDLESS OF HIS RANK!!!
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I, for one, believe that there is something wrong here when it comes to defining things as "traditional" in the military. An E-8 (with a group of SR. NCOs from our Division HQ) held a meeting with our NCOs in the BDE in Fort Sill to discuss the issue of "hazing." He went on to explain that there is an issue with NCOs explaining themselves for hazing by pointing out that it is "traditional" to smoke a Joe in order to discipline them. Do I agree that it is traditional? At the time, Yes, but what is traditional? MSG (nameless) explained that yes, maybe we've all been smoked in our day, BUT it is not traditional. He explained that for something to be traditional, it HAS to be written in the ARMY'S traditions....which no Soldier will find smoking written anywhere. So if this were true, then I don't think it makes sense to allow people to call each other Michael or John on the basis that it is "traditional." I think....it is highly unprofessional, if anything, whether or not it is in the presence of enlisted.
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I know exactly where your coming from. I worked at the Company level then moved up to BDE. I saw it everyday around new troops. I moved back to the Company and one of the BDE troops where moved aswell. We have had nothing but trouble with the troop. Being that the highest rank here is a CPT and he worked directly for a MAJ he doesn't care. He also goes back to his old boss and complains all then time. We are now looking to separate him because he won't respect our lower rank structure.
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Just a simple OTS correction, after they tell you their opinion on how much they think the military bearing and standards on this particular issue is stupid, say, roger, and go about your day.
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(Working in TRADOC) I talk to so many people who say that It is okay to keep one hand in your pocket when instructing a class. I have looked an cannot find this anywhere. If anyone knows where this exception is (if it even exists, I assume it doesn't) please let the rest of us know.
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MAJ (Join to see)
The first exception, for the men in these photos, is that 670-1 does not apply to General Officers. I found this out from an aide to BG Pickett when he was the 18th ABN DCG OPS. They can chose their own uniform they wish to wear.
http://www.apd.army.mil/jw2/xmldemo/r670_1/cover.asp
I will admit sometimes I have found the hands in those comfy pockets and when I realize I pull them out. If someone brought it up I would pull them out and as long as they were tactful the issue would be over.
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SFC (Join to see)
MAJ Telesco, I do not think that this means 670-1 is not applicable to all General Officers. The text reads:
"It does not apply to generals of the Army, the Chief of Staff of the Army, or former Chiefs of Staff of the Army, each of whom may prescribe his or her own uniform.
There is a huge difference in General of the Army (a special position only during a time of war, 5 stars) and a General in the Army. If the text meant all Generals in the Army I believe it would not go on to say the Chief of Staff (who is inherently a General). I read this as 670-1 does not apply to a 5 star General, the Chief of Staff or any former Chiefs of staff.
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SSgt Paul Fraser
SSG, If they meant the "5-star" general, it would have been Generals of the Army vs generals of the Army. Since that position is a titled position, it would be a proper noun and the G would be capitalized. With a lower-case g, it refers to all army Generals.
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SSG Micah Faia
It says only that... It does not apply to the Chief of Staff of the Army, or former Chiefs of Staff of the Army, each of whom may prescribe his or her own uniform. It doesn't mention anything about Generals.
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Agree on the hands in pockets, its a degree of professionalism and the hands in pockets has a kind of slouchy appearance to it. Cross your arms if your cold-AR670-1 doesnt prohibit that and it works just as effectively.
As far as the first names go, if they are someone you work with on a daily basis, IE, you are a maintainer on a specified airframe and the pilots know you by name, sight, and go up with you flight by flight, berevity is key. Saying the word "Sir, or Maam" after every response, especially when looking for traffic in busy airspace, could be consequential to the lives of the crew and whatever or whoever may be on board. I believe that it should be left to the officer to make the decision, and I have been told many times before by much senior in rank that in private or on the aircraft to call them by first name basis only. However, when in the presence of others, proper military customs and courtesy still apply.
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And here is another bit on nice juicy NCO guidance...
http://ncojournal.dodlive.mil/

The official magazine of noncommissioned officer professional development
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