Posted on May 28, 2016
A1C Cyber Systems Operations
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I am an atheist, but I also believe strongly in the right to practice your own religion freely. When it comes to ceremonies, I believe that prayer could be seen as a violation of the establishment clause of the first amendment. I believe this because there are many different beliefs recognized by the government (atheism/agnosticism, satanism, Buddhism/Hinduism, etc...) that fall outside of the Christian spectrum, and having a Chaplin lead prayer before mandatory events forces non-believers and followers of different faiths to participate in a practice outside of their own. Is it just me, or should prayer during non-religious ceremonies be banned when it comes to mandatory events such as promotion/graduation ceremonies and commander calls to ensure religious freedom is enforced?
Posted in these groups: Atheism symbol AtheismAfp getty 511269685 CeremonyWorld religions 2 Religion
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Responses: 102
SSG John Jensen
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way back when, when it was announced for duty uniform instead of PT uniform, we knew it was going to be a prayer breakfast, so half of the medical plt showed up in PT uniform to do PT instead of prayer breakfast, this was about '83
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SGT Jason Herbert
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An open prair is open air. You don't have to pray with them but you can be respectful of the time because the prayers usually are asking for blessing, thankfulness and protection of your comrades and friends.

Though I think a regulation should minimize the chaplains prayers to under 2min 30 sec
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MSgt Jonathan Stump
MSgt Jonathan Stump
8 y
Why have it at all? Or, as I have stated before, why not have it before the ceremony?
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SGT Jason Herbert
SGT Jason Herbert
8 y
I think they typically do have it right before the ceremony when the chaplain provides the invocation.

Either way why not? Is it dishonest info to your own creed, religion or morals to allow people who use that time as a moment of respect and silence. Is it just impatience or individualism that wants to end it?

Retreat its up way more time and it happens daily. If anything where a bigger waste of time it's the entire post stopping for retreat. Or seargent majors defending some dried weeds and dirt screaming stay off the grass. Or having every swinging dick write out their intentions on what they're doing and where they'll be every weekend when it never goes down like that and they still get piss drunk starting a fight in a bar ending up in a cell waiting on a first sergeant to come sign for them.

Why waste so much effort?
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SSG Trevor S.
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You can't stand by and think about your day while others participate? What does it hurt to allow others to participate in prayer? Where should I put the band-aid?
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MSgt Jonathan Stump
MSgt Jonathan Stump
8 y
SSG Trevor S. - Sure you will. The chaplin can come along. But, you just opened up another can of worms. Why can we not have a Wiccan chaplain.

I am not trying to create a problem, just correct a wrong that has gone on long enough. The problem is that some religions get things while others do not. It is funny that anyone would see a problem with that.
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Sgt Jim Weeder
Sgt Jim Weeder
8 y
And what happens when the "rec center" that is being used as a chapel has 2 different services that have to be performed at the same time? I recall a Chapel at the now closed Hamilton AFB CA that had a sliding wall to cover up the Cross and that Chapel was bulit prior to WWII ! But then again you have time constraints.
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SSG Trevor S.
SSG Trevor S.
8 y
Sgt Jim Weeder - With every function there is at least a minimum training colander coordination. Its not hard to deconflict schedules.
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Sgt Jim Weeder
Sgt Jim Weeder
8 y
So as a quick single example of conflicts.....Easter morning sunrise service, this would conflict with Muslims morning prayer. Their are also Solstice ceremonies that occur at set times. Yes in some cases the coordinator could handle the scheduling but in some cases it would end up being a "my religion should go first" A way to avoid this (but some times impracticable) would be separate areas. If you look at the Air Force Chapel they have done a great job having areas for most religions, they even have a prayer circle for Pagans now.
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SSgt Jamie Ritter LeBlanc
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Respect and tolerance should go both ways or not all.
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SrA Viengvilay Xayavongsa
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Only if they allow gay marriage too.
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TSgt Deputy Airfield Manager
TSgt (Join to see)
8 y
Um. They do.
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SrA Water and Fuel Systems Maintenance
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U should just shut the f*** up brother believe in what u want to but the majority wants to do it there way so be it i will not cater to just ones need or be policical correct for just on of the majority brother be a biger airmen and shut up
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SrA Viengvilay Xayavongsa
SrA Viengvilay Xayavongsa
8 y
I expected higher standards in verbal etiquette from a SrA borderline SSgt, but maybe you're just a dirtbag airman.
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SrA Edward Vong
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Prayer may be part of the ceremony or event, I feel that participating in the prayer should be optional, but be respectful at the minimum.
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SPC Joshua Heath
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I agree, there should not be prayer at mandatory events. I have no problem with prayer in any other circumstance and I support those who choose to pray in public, as long as they do not force others to pray with them.
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MSgt Security Business Analyst
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What Clause are you referring to? Explain it.
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SrA Viengvilay Xayavongsa
SrA Viengvilay Xayavongsa
8 y
I believe in Clause, Santa Clause (Claus).
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MSgt Security Business Analyst
MSgt (Join to see)
8 y
Hahaha
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Maj Roger Catron
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We as a nation as well as our military have made many accommodations to give everyone the maximum religious freedom while preserving other's religious freedom. Even as you have stated, atheism is recognized. At some point when all has been done possible to protect each and everyone's rights, it must be decided in favor of the vast majority. In your example that would be to allow the prayer. This country was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs and members to this day are overwhelmingly Jews or Christians. Let's not forget, keeping prayer out of ceremonies where it has long been customary would be, in fact, allowing Athiest to exercise their religion by blocking religious participation. Good question to which there is no textbook solution. Thanks for asking.
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Maj Roger Catron
Maj Roger Catron
>1 y
MSgt Lowell Skelton you do not have the right to refuse others to exercise their religious beliefs just because believe in nothing and by allowing nothing would be your preference, it denies the majority their rights to express their religious beliefs. If you don’t want to participate, don’t. Just as will wast no more of my time listening to nor responding to your fool hearted blather.
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MSgt Lowell Skelton
MSgt Lowell Skelton
>1 y
Maj Roger Catron - Baloney. YOU do not have the right to refuse me to exercise my lack of religious beliefs just because you believe in fairytales. Atheism is NOT a religion, period. People can exercise their religious beliefs at the proper time and place, without imposing them on anyone else. mandatory formations and functions are NOT the proper place or time. You obviously have no objections to violating anyone's RIGHT to not participate. Screw the majority. They're not going to dictate my participation in their superstitions. But feel free to not "wast" your time respecting the Constitution or writing a literate response.
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Maj Roger Catron
Maj Roger Catron
>1 y
Your dilusion continues. Come back when you have an intelligent reply. There is NOWHERE in our constitution that grants atheist the right to not hear religious messages. May God have mercy on your soul.
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MSgt Lowell Skelton
MSgt Lowell Skelton
>1 y
Maj Roger Catron - BS. I have the Constitutional RIGHT to refuse to be ordered to be in any formation which involves any religious service, prayer, or ritual. Screw your damned superstitions. They do not override MY rights.
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