Posted on Aug 11, 2017
Should Soldiers be punished for failing the EIB PT test on purpose?
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Expert Infantryman Badge (EIB)
11B: Infantryman
APFT
UCMJ
Punishment
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 58
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Hmmm, failing the PT test on purpose??? That sounds like a leadership/morale problem. Of course, today's Army is nothing like it was when I was in-everyone excelled whenever possible.
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No, proper counseling should be done to reflect how their actions can affect their careers. If troops want to do things the results have a higher return in success.
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SSG (Join to see)
That's a good way to approach it. Like someone mentioned in one of the post, the EIB could be deciding factor on the E7 selection board especially if you have 2 squared away NCO's to pick from.
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Why stop there? How many people get sent to Ranger School and "fail" the swim test? Before anyone says that Ranger School is a all volunteer course, I feel the need to say that for many young officers fresh out of IOBC Ranger School is not so voluntary. Like the standards for the APFT for EIB, the swim test at Ranger School exceeds basic Army standards and failure does not currently violate any standard that will get you chaptered. That said, deliberate failures should be given GOMARs. The problem you get into though is the burden of proof that the failure really was intentional.
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SGM Erik Marquez
"The problem you get into though is the burden of proof that the failure really was intentional."
benefit of the doubt goes to the SM.. It would be something obvious and likely self admitted.. as I just posted elsewhere..
"How do you prove that someone failed on purpose?"
Commonly its something like tester and timer say GO and the SM does 2 reps of push ups, snaps to attention and shouts "FTA" or "Im short" "Im out of here" ect ect ect
Or they do 2 reps stand up, and just tell the grader, i dont want to do this.
Again, as Ive stated otherwise, if the unit did things right, there is no need for "punishment for quitters, and there is plenty of motivation for the SM to do the best they can do,,,as it should be a recored APFT. So "quiting" means a whole host of negative administrative ramifications. Not passing with a score of 79 in any one event keeps them from those administrative ramifications as they passed the army standard, just missed the EIB standard of 80.
benefit of the doubt goes to the SM.. It would be something obvious and likely self admitted.. as I just posted elsewhere..
"How do you prove that someone failed on purpose?"
Commonly its something like tester and timer say GO and the SM does 2 reps of push ups, snaps to attention and shouts "FTA" or "Im short" "Im out of here" ect ect ect
Or they do 2 reps stand up, and just tell the grader, i dont want to do this.
Again, as Ive stated otherwise, if the unit did things right, there is no need for "punishment for quitters, and there is plenty of motivation for the SM to do the best they can do,,,as it should be a recored APFT. So "quiting" means a whole host of negative administrative ramifications. Not passing with a score of 79 in any one event keeps them from those administrative ramifications as they passed the army standard, just missed the EIB standard of 80.
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SFC, in my opinion if they fail the PT test they should be punished accordingly. But if they pass without meeting the EIB requirements there really isn't much you can do about that.
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SSG (Join to see)
Why punish Soldiers for something that's not required. Of course the infantry have their own set of add to rules, but according to big army, you are required to take record APFT 2x a year unless you fail one.
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SSG (Join to see)
Maybe punishment is too harsh of a word for that sentence. If they fail the APFT they should be handled in accordance with the regulation.
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Absolutely. It is called quitting and is against our Values and creed. They need training to bring themselves to standard. Whether that be physical standards or understanding that you do not quit. The concept of allowing it breeds mediocrity, and when you need your men to truly endure something shitty, a foundation that allows quitting during training is not helping.
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SSG (Join to see)
Good morning sir, I understand that you feel that way, but I was one of the ones that quit before. It's hard going through that when the weather was between 5 and 20 degrees any given day.
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Hello everyone, let's separate the oranges (EIB Training) from the Apples (EIB Testing). A unit can make the work requirements such as Weapons Qualification, PT Test, etc. as part of the units overall training program to support meeting deployability requirements. So, if a unit is in its training cycle and weapons qualification and PT test are required during the time period, and the soldier fails on purpose...flag and appropriate actions. Now say that soldier passes the perquisites to participate in the EIB Testing process, he must Volunteer and have the Commanders Recommendation to move forward, and if there is an additional PT test required since the soldier volunteered to take the EIB Test, he is most likely not going to "purposely" fail. Now in the train up period (Oranges) and the soldier is told that this PT test is going to be used to support participation in the EIB Testing (Apples), the soldier can inform his chain of command that he will gladly participate in the training portion, however may not not participate in the testing phase. And, if the soldier is (Voluntold) that he will participate, he can still pass the PT test (so, no flagging actions), and just fail some of the EIB tasks. Which 70% of the soldiers will do anyway...Manage and lead your soldiers to what must be done, verses what they can volunteer for...in my time the EIB was a sincere show of an Infantryman's desire to be the best he can...no one ever failed anything on purpose.
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To play the devil's advocate no there shouldn't. It requires a volunteer statement to test. Units not letting people go home until there signed or just hazing joe's until they sign is a blatant indicator that they shouldn't even go to the test. It wastes the graders IE my time.
You can't force people to want to succeed.
You can't force people to want to succeed.
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