Posted on Dec 29, 2015
Should someone be denied a retirement award, after 20 years of service and 4 deployments, because they're flagged for being overweight?
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Height and Weight
AR 600-8-22
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 107
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I agree that PT is an individual responsibility. However, I don't agree with the people that forget that our bodies deteriorates with time and like to talk/act like this will never happen to them. It is unbelievable how we like to throw the regulation and talk about what is "right" or what should be done when in reality we don't operate in a perfect world.
I don't know the entire history of the individual but usually situations like the one mentioned on this post happens because someone just wants to hurt in some way or fashion the individual that is retiring. At this point, everybody in the CoC should be trying to help him/her to finish strong and get him to pass but who knows if the award is the last thing that the SM is thinking about.
I don't know the entire history of the individual but usually situations like the one mentioned on this post happens because someone just wants to hurt in some way or fashion the individual that is retiring. At this point, everybody in the CoC should be trying to help him/her to finish strong and get him to pass but who knows if the award is the last thing that the SM is thinking about.
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Regulations and self discipline matter. Leadership matters and this soldier failed his or her soldiers. They're lucky to get to retire and not be separated. I'd hold myself to the same standards.
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SFC (Join to see)
You don't know me so don't make assumptions. I've had a Sergeant Major with a permanent profile for a broken back that still maintained his pt and discipline. And you don't know what I've been through physically or how old I am. The army isn't ruined, and people that whine that it is have no place in it anymore. Up vote everyone of higher rank and those who agree with you, down vote my response and attack me because its contrarian. Petty. Enjoy your retirement.
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SFC (Join to see)
SSG Brian Marshall
I'm 52 years old and have had back and hernia surgery. My knees hurt and I still consistently score over a 290 on the APFT. I control my diet and limit my exercising to activities my injuries allow me to do. Some people make excuses, others take action.
I'm 52 years old and have had back and hernia surgery. My knees hurt and I still consistently score over a 290 on the APFT. I control my diet and limit my exercising to activities my injuries allow me to do. Some people make excuses, others take action.
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CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret)
SGT Armstrong, no disrespect intended but I think you have a rather narrow minded opinion based on limited experience. We all get the importance of regulations and why they exist. I’ve been in for a long time and have seen how the Army works – there are different standards applied to each Soldier at retirement. It can be due to rank, popularity, being at the right place at the right time and just dumb luck. The reality is regs are not applied evenly at retirement (and in other circumstances) – I know because I’ve seen it happen many, many times.
In my case, I was injured parachuting (military), during training, and in Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan. I was in the infantry, airborne infantry, Rangers, SF and MI. My service has resulted in one neck surgery, two back surgeries and one knee replacement, not to mention all the other injuries I have. I have 37 years in service (currently) and plan on going for five more when I am forced out at about 60.
I have had a great career and have been recognized for the job I have done many times (I have all the medals I need). I’ve never been in “serious” trouble. I am a Reservist (have been since 1984 when I came off my 1st enlistment). I have a permanent profile and a temp profile (recovering from my 2nd back surgery). I didn’t have to go to Afghanistan but I forced my way into going in 2012, where I was again injured. I had a 100% VA rating and began drawing Social Security Disability prior to going to AFG (I drill for points only – virtually no military pay). I am pretty busted up but I still make the minimum requirements to be retained in the Army. I can pass my APFT (walk) but because of my size (and age) I am a little overweight but I make tape. I’m 75” and weigh 235.
SGT Armstrong, I offer all this to you because there are MANY other Soldiers out there in similar situations as mine when they are retiring or approaching retirement (injuries, limited ability to do PT, a little overweight, etc., etc.). I personally am not very concerned over whether I receive a retirement award but based upon what I have told you, would you deny me (or a Soldier like me) a retirement award because I missed tape by an inch at retirement?
In my case, I was injured parachuting (military), during training, and in Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan. I was in the infantry, airborne infantry, Rangers, SF and MI. My service has resulted in one neck surgery, two back surgeries and one knee replacement, not to mention all the other injuries I have. I have 37 years in service (currently) and plan on going for five more when I am forced out at about 60.
I have had a great career and have been recognized for the job I have done many times (I have all the medals I need). I’ve never been in “serious” trouble. I am a Reservist (have been since 1984 when I came off my 1st enlistment). I have a permanent profile and a temp profile (recovering from my 2nd back surgery). I didn’t have to go to Afghanistan but I forced my way into going in 2012, where I was again injured. I had a 100% VA rating and began drawing Social Security Disability prior to going to AFG (I drill for points only – virtually no military pay). I am pretty busted up but I still make the minimum requirements to be retained in the Army. I can pass my APFT (walk) but because of my size (and age) I am a little overweight but I make tape. I’m 75” and weigh 235.
SGT Armstrong, I offer all this to you because there are MANY other Soldiers out there in similar situations as mine when they are retiring or approaching retirement (injuries, limited ability to do PT, a little overweight, etc., etc.). I personally am not very concerned over whether I receive a retirement award but based upon what I have told you, would you deny me (or a Soldier like me) a retirement award because I missed tape by an inch at retirement?
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SFC Douglas Duckett
CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) - Sir, you are on the same thought process I am trying to explain in my previous comments.
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War time no, peace time yes. I'm assuming you were givin more than one opportunity to drop the slop unless you're a bodybuilder patiently waiting on a waiver. Peace out brother.
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Should they- by regulation they are. Why did the individual allow it to happen? It is after all a personal responsibility.
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I think if you served honorably you deserve it. when I MEB at 22 years, on my last two days my 1sgt asked if I wanted a retirement award. I looked at him point blank and said no, I don't need shit from this company. and walked out, was this out of line yes, I just wanted to be outta there. I feel the command should not ask if you want one, they should do one anyway, and you know awards take forever to process, with timelines. not done 2 days til your retired
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I wonder if someone made this individual go to a "mandatory" retirement ceremony? Oh wait, those are optional? I was blessed with a COC that cared about myself and my peers as we retired. They were AMAZING!!! I also know for a fact there were others with Chains of Management that didn't care about them whatsoever. I never wore my retirement award and like others said, how is your resume? Further, how are your interviewing skills? Networking? Etc. There are a lot of good leaders who truly take care of Soldiers exiting service. There are also a lot that are idiots when it comes to exiting Soldiers. And we wonder why the DOD spends nearly a billion $ a year on unemployment.
I care about this individual. Could you please have them connect with me here and I will invite them to my LinkedIn. I have coached a lot of people into careers. Hey, got myself one too and I am happy.
I am not a part of a non profit, just one vet who likes to share any knowledge I have to set brethren and sisteren up for success.
Devaluing someones service who dedicated half their lifespan is so stupid. When you are under a year, who cares how much you weigh and how many stupid pushups you can do? Why don't you proof their resumes? Send them to TAPS and NOT call them a thousand times? I bet the standards horn tooters in this thread would have used that same SSG for Staff Duty or as a Barracks Manager in a heartbeat. Here is another reason why I am so glad to be a retiree. Idiotic.
I care about this individual. Could you please have them connect with me here and I will invite them to my LinkedIn. I have coached a lot of people into careers. Hey, got myself one too and I am happy.
I am not a part of a non profit, just one vet who likes to share any knowledge I have to set brethren and sisteren up for success.
Devaluing someones service who dedicated half their lifespan is so stupid. When you are under a year, who cares how much you weigh and how many stupid pushups you can do? Why don't you proof their resumes? Send them to TAPS and NOT call them a thousand times? I bet the standards horn tooters in this thread would have used that same SSG for Staff Duty or as a Barracks Manager in a heartbeat. Here is another reason why I am so glad to be a retiree. Idiotic.
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for a good portion of my 20 years on AD I struggled with the weight control program. Being at 6ft 5 inches I averaged 230 pounds which fluctuated 5 or 6 pounds in either direction. I had been subject to being pinch tested at first then taped regularly. More often than not I would get a response from those in the chain of command who would say " Damn Sergeant D you don't look over weight" !! I have been retired almost 16 years and I would have thought this program would have gone bye bye. Sadly I saw a lot of quality personnel get flagged and forced out while I was in. I often question was this a tool to be used to thin out the herd or was it a tool to only have lean mean fighting machines in the ranks.
Only in my opinion do I think it is a very discriminatory program and the numbers developed by the people in the powers that be are going to be the rule. For me I question just how do they come up with these numbers and what are they based on. If a service member is highly motivated and dedicated and has no problems meeting all standards this tool is really archaic and needs to be sent to the bone yard for counter productive regulations. On the other hand the service member is morbidly obese and cant meet standards they should be chaptered out.
Only in my opinion do I think it is a very discriminatory program and the numbers developed by the people in the powers that be are going to be the rule. For me I question just how do they come up with these numbers and what are they based on. If a service member is highly motivated and dedicated and has no problems meeting all standards this tool is really archaic and needs to be sent to the bone yard for counter productive regulations. On the other hand the service member is morbidly obese and cant meet standards they should be chaptered out.
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SSG Brian Marshall
Yea I'm pretty much in the same boat. I'm 6 foot 225 but apparently that's unhealthy in the Army.
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Personally I feel that the Army's Award System as well as their Height/Weight Measurement System is broken. As LtCol Shuttleworth stated, down range, they were handed out like candy and then that individual was never seen again. But, me personally, It would've been nice to have received an MSM when I retired, but I wasn't heart broken once I found out I wouldn't be getting one...... I was 20 lbs overweight. Fat? No! But in my own defense, I suffered an IED blast in which I broke my neck, upon returning home, my health slowly started to decline physically, no matter how much I PT'd and lived in the gym. I had my shoulder rebuilt, a year later, knee reconstruction, another deployment ...... still hooking and jabbing. After that 4th deployment, I came home, a ton of pain, had a heart attack and heart surgery, mixed with PTSD, TBI, Depression, Meds and Drinking them down, but still doing my duties, holding my family together, receiving a Unit Award and being accepted into the Order of the Cheyenne (I trained Apache Pilots on Air-to-Ground Tactics, I was the OPFOR TRNG NCOIC), but they couldn't see fit to give me an MSM, yet a MSG just a month before retires, 52 lbs overweight, well liked by everyone, 25 yrs of svc to my 23, and he receives his 1st MSM, now mind you he was a 1SG for 4 yrs and got relieved for cause. WTF! System is broken! I've never had one bad piece of paper or bad NCOER.
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SSG Brian Marshall
Yes unfortunately shit like this happens on a regular basis and that's what really irritates me. I agree the award system and the counseling system for that matter are broke and need to be revamped.
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Thank you for your dedication and service. I wouldn't stress about the extra ribbon after all you have done. Immense achievement.
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Receiving a gong with your retirement is a nice way to say thanks for your service and eating the crap sandwich for 20 years or more but in the long run means nothing because you will be remembered by your peers and juniors for how good or bad you were. Still it sounds like you commander must be a real tool or have a bad case of penis envy. Enjoy your monthly check in the bank, remember the good times and great people and enjoy your new life.
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