Posted on Feb 1, 2017
Should the 2d Amendment be amended to remove the confusing first phrase?
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Responses: 491
What is the basis of your proposal? As for now, I cannot see the need to change it. What needs to be changed is the discussion about gun control.
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MSgt George Cater
I agree with you. I understand it intent perfectly. It was just a thought question to solicit RP opinions.
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It would not fix the problem because the Liberals don't understand simple English. They will always say what they "believe" it means, not what it actually means.
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Look how seldom 38 States agree on something. If the naive governor Jerry Brown's of the United States got together to agree on this is going to take decades but in the meantime the bad guys don't care and laugh at Progressive but will still have guns and will continue to kill and this is true even here in Canada.
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Cpl Gabriel F.
Canada or any country or U.S.A. state that have unconstitutional regulations or laws in regard to firearms.
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LTC Stephen Conway
Cpl Gabriel F. - I don't know about unconstitutional we have stupid laws like in California were only the criminals can have above a 10-shot magazine all because of the governor and his legislature overreacting to the Christmas party of 2015 when the terrorists received weapons and magazines from Nevada. Only in California! Now everybody who has an old magazine laying around the house now has a misdemeanor or a felony. Well the bad guys already have a misdemeanor and a felony and they don't care!
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In order for some to fully understand why certain words and phrases were used in the creation of the Constitution, one would need to place themselves in the same time period the Constitution was created. Some words and phrases had different meanings than they do today, obviously. This link is to an article I found that analyzes the terminology (specifically, the 2nd Amendment) used and how it could possibly have been intended to read and how it would translate to today's definitions of the words and phrases.
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/gun01.htm
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/gun01.htm
The Second Amendment: The Framers' Intentions
The 'Well Regulated' Militia of the SecondAmendment: An Examination of the Framers' Intentions - from the 'Lectric LawLibrary's stacks
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CW3 Harvey K.
Interesting article. Nowadays we see many who try to have "well regulated" travel over 200 years into the future where it gains the modern connotations of "lots of Government rules, regulations, and restrictions". It had no such connotation when the 2nd Amendment was written, nor for at least 8 decades before and after the Bill of Rights was submitted to the states for ratification.
Not only that, but they wish "well regulated" to leap from the "Militia clause" where it is employed to describe "Militia" and --- unique in the English language --- now modify either "the right of the people ..." or "Arms".
Not only that, but they wish "well regulated" to leap from the "Militia clause" where it is employed to describe "Militia" and --- unique in the English language --- now modify either "the right of the people ..." or "Arms".
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Cpl Gabriel F.
The founders were very selective in the use as well as the choice of words. They had the ability and knowledge not only to envision the future but draw from history.
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Once you open it up to being revised the changes would get out of meaningful hand.
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The militia part can be somewhat confusing. It can theoretically be used to say that only those in the National Guard/Reserve are allowed to own firearms (which I obviously don't agree with).
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SPC Don Wynn
CW3 Harvey K. - It would be more the people, rising up in their righteous might and removing said government by force of will. Keep in mind, as long as the military is citizen soldiers, composed of right thinking individuals, no despotic officials can use it to suppress the citizenry. Would you ever have attacked a citizen? Or followed orders that would have put US citizens in harm's way?
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GySgt Douglas Dare
You are incorrect. Think with a 18th century mind set. Our founding Fathers lived in the 1700's not the 21st century. A militia was WE THE PEOPLE coming together as a unit to defend our homes and rights from an over baring threat. They did not have a National Guard or Reserve. Not confusing when you understand the empowerment of WE THE PEOPLE!
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SFC Gary Guyer
The NG/USAR is not a militia. They are govt entities. A militia is not a govt entity, but made up of freemen.
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CWO2 Frank Slaby
National Guard and militia are comprised of "people," therefore "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. The following is from SCOTUS United States vs. Miller 1939: "The signification attributed to the term Militia appears from the debates in the Convention, the history and legislation of Colonies and States, and the writings of approved commentators. These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. "A body of citizens enrolled for military discipline." And further, that ordinarily, when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time."
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What many people either forget or never knew is that in Colonial times, the militia was every able bodied man capable of using a firearm. Thus the militia was "the people" as a whole. Any serious study of the Founding Father's writing from the time make it clear that they intended for everyone to have the right to own firearms.
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It is only confusing to those who do not study history.
The first phrase, “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,” is the founding fathers recognizing that the government needs an armed force to orotect itself. The second phrase “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” Is the Founders recognizing the people must have the ability to protect itself from the militia (under the control of the government).
Their experience was that England took away their guns and made it easier to control them.
The first phrase, “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,” is the founding fathers recognizing that the government needs an armed force to orotect itself. The second phrase “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” Is the Founders recognizing the people must have the ability to protect itself from the militia (under the control of the government).
Their experience was that England took away their guns and made it easier to control them.
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I consider it clear and unambiguous as it is. The problem lies in the common historical malpractice of modernism. This is the practice of examining historical events and documents as if they had occurred or been written today, rather than in the past. It is only in trying to ascribe today's definitions to the words of the past that we start confusing people regarding what the intent and meaning of those past words were. That's the technique that the communist (Gasp! I used the "c" word, which describes what they are, instead of the "politically correct" euphemisms for communism, like "progressives" or "leftists" or "socialists"! Tsk! Tsk!) morons trying to undermine the 2nd amendment use.
There IS no ambiguity. The word "people" doesn't change in meaning from the first, to the second, to the fourth amendment. And the meaning of the introductory phrase has to be seen in the context of what those words meant AT THE TIME. So, since you've asked for opinions, here's mine: Leave it alone! It's been clear and unambiguous for over 200 years. No amount of communist braying today will change history.
There IS no ambiguity. The word "people" doesn't change in meaning from the first, to the second, to the fourth amendment. And the meaning of the introductory phrase has to be seen in the context of what those words meant AT THE TIME. So, since you've asked for opinions, here's mine: Leave it alone! It's been clear and unambiguous for over 200 years. No amount of communist braying today will change history.
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As a nation, we have allowed the Second Amendment to become the bastard-child of the Constitution. In the Federalist Papers, the intent of the Second Amendment is well documented. The Second Amendment is not a phrase to be bantered about like some prophesetical evangelist on a street corner. The militia and “we the people” are one-in-the-same. The people are armed so they may stand up against factions and tyranny that work to disrupt the free nation that was formed. The “shall not be infringed” is reference to any action by the government (federal or states) to inhibit the right of the people to bear arms. While times have changed, and our governments and society in general have become more civilized (so-to-speak), armed insurrection against a tyrannical government is the right of the people, no matter how unlikely it is to occur in our lifetime, or how much our nation has changed since the 1700’s. So I say, “No”, the 2nd Amendment is very clear on the right of the people and should not be amended in any fashion.
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