Posted on Jun 16, 2015
Should the EIB/EFMB be changed to become a true qualification?
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This came up in another thread about the Unit Commander making everyone remove all badges for training.
Should the EIB/EFMB which is currently a one time event to permanent award of the badge be changed to be more inline with the marksmanship badges where you must re-qualify every X period to maintain the badge and title of "expert"
Being a AF Guy, I have no skin in the game, it came up so I thought I would as RP!
Should the EIB/EFMB which is currently a one time event to permanent award of the badge be changed to be more inline with the marksmanship badges where you must re-qualify every X period to maintain the badge and title of "expert"
Being a AF Guy, I have no skin in the game, it came up so I thought I would as RP!
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 65
Let's change it around. Can a soldier lose his marksman ship ability? Sure. Just the lack of going to the range to shoot can lower a soldier's ability to keep his weapon on target. But can a soldier lose his training? Can he forget basic concepts of how to handle a weapon? Throw a grenade? Land navigation? Individual combat movement techniques? How to clear a building? Camouflage? And more? More than likely NO. And if a soldier somehow did, how? It's a soldiers job to stay ready for combat. That soldier's leadership would have to take 100% of the blame. The misuse of training time. You don't need a lot of room to train either. The same area you hold formations in you can practice drawing range cards for individuals up to the whole company and get command practice you'll need in the field. Your Squad Leader's can help their soldiers and Platoon Leader's can help the Squad Leader's. Practice deliberate assaults on a squad and platoon level. So, should the EIB have re-qualifications? No. It's just too easy to stay qualified after earning it.
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No. If you do that the. You should make the Parachutist badge, Air Assault badge, Ranger Tab, et al a requal.
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
MAJ John Storer Don't they have to re-cert if they don't jump for a specific period of time before they can perform JM duties?
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****I cut and pasted one of my replies to the comments below****
If you (and any individual that is confused as to what the EIB/EFMB actually is) want to know what the requirements are, and the idea behind these awards, I would suggest you review AR 600-8-22, and DA Pam 40-20 (EFMB). Again, these badges are awarded after completion of criteria, just like Air Assault, Just like Airborne, Just like the Ranger Tab (I am not comparing the difficulty level, just the completion of a set criteria/school = earned right to wear badge/tab).
As far as being proficient in skills/tasks; Medics are required to complete the 68W training table 8every year to maintain the MOS. That has to happen whether or not they have a CMB/EFMB.
To be perfectly honest, there seems to be some badge/award envy or maybe if they are holders of the badge, some unnecessary protectionism of them.
You meet the requirements, you attend the course, you complete all tasks, you get awarded the badge. That is it. Any Medic or Infantryman may attempt to earn their respective badges at any time; Many try, and most fail. Why are you interested in taking these badges away from those that didn't fail?
If you (and any individual that is confused as to what the EIB/EFMB actually is) want to know what the requirements are, and the idea behind these awards, I would suggest you review AR 600-8-22, and DA Pam 40-20 (EFMB). Again, these badges are awarded after completion of criteria, just like Air Assault, Just like Airborne, Just like the Ranger Tab (I am not comparing the difficulty level, just the completion of a set criteria/school = earned right to wear badge/tab).
As far as being proficient in skills/tasks; Medics are required to complete the 68W training table 8every year to maintain the MOS. That has to happen whether or not they have a CMB/EFMB.
To be perfectly honest, there seems to be some badge/award envy or maybe if they are holders of the badge, some unnecessary protectionism of them.
You meet the requirements, you attend the course, you complete all tasks, you get awarded the badge. That is it. Any Medic or Infantryman may attempt to earn their respective badges at any time; Many try, and most fail. Why are you interested in taking these badges away from those that didn't fail?
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The fact is the EIB (Expert Infantryman Badge) and the EFMB (Expert Field Medical Badge) are not badges but awards for completing the required paracticum. Therefore a requal or recert is unnecessary - they are awarded for meeting certain criteria. The equivelent would be to requal or recert for CIB (Combat Infantryman Badge), CMB (Combat Medical Badge), CAB (Combat Action Badge) or for the Navy, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard the Combat Action Ribbon, and for the Air Force Combat Action Medal. Not much fun to requal or recert combat to wear the associated badge/ribbon or medal huh?
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
MSG (Join to see) the Combat ones a horse of a different color because it does not imply "expert". It says I was XYZ while assigned to an XYZ billet in actual Combat.
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MSG (Join to see)
I hear what you are saying...Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my previous comment. The reason I likened the EIB/EFMB to combat badges is because they are all awards - not qualifications. Awards and qualifications are separate and distinct from one another. This is perhaps confusing to someone from a technical branch of service. We have qualifications in the Army as well and must requal for certain certifications. Awards are given for meeting certain criteria. EIB/EFMB, CIB/CAB/CMB, Airborne, Air Assault, Ranger, Pathfinder, etc., all have awards pertaining to the successful completion of said criteria. Jumpmaster and Pathfinder (Operational) have awards (badges) associated with completion of criteria but also have certifcations that must be met regularly to continue to perform duties. Once awarded badges are authorized for wear for the rest of a Soldier's career except in very rare circumstances. I hope this clears things up - unless you are playing Devil's Advicate on this thread...
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I been mechanized Infantry for 20 yrs and when the EIB was offered to us while stationed at Ft Hood, Tx in 82' It was required that everyone participated and if you got just one no-go on any task or fail to qualify expert, or complete the 12 mile road march you were then disqualified over all. It is a Badge that is very hard to earn and it takes tons of practice and years honing those skills in order to pass every thing the first time, but at the end of it all it is very rewarding and very special when you have a two or three star General pin the EIB on your chest and it means for a life time and no it should not be where you have to re-qualify for it every year. The CIB is a one time shot for most and two time shot for some and this my dear fellow soldiers/friends is something that is earned during war time and it distinguishes you from someone that has not experience war, it also shows you proved you are and was combat ready as a lean mean fighting killing machine that defended your country with all your might, pride and risking your life for and I would have to tell a Commander that I would flat out refuse to take either my EIB or CIB off during anything just so I can look like everyone else that hasn't experienced either one of them! I fought in Desert Storm War 91' out of Germany and a very good friend of mine was blown up to pieces in his Bradley Fighting Vehicle and then after we fought and killed off the republican guard and assembled into a TAA at 3 am, then an explosion happened in the middle of it not to long after we were in the assembly area. Again my friends eight of our own young soldiers died playing around with those cluster bombs that failed to go off and I with 10 other of my soldiers in my platoon had to bag and tag what was left of them in order to get them prepped to be shipped back home. So I ask do you think I am willing to take off my EIB / CIB just because a commander wants everyone to look equal? Heck no I earned it once and that was it. Also as it as always been to where the Vietnam Vets with CIBs trained us to fight and kill the enemy and it was our turn to do the same for the young soldiers that came after the war so they be combat ready as well. The ones with the expertise does the training of certain tasks to our young soldiers and then we the ones with the badge do the testing of them. As for weapons qualification, I for one agree to qualify every six months in order to stay sharp at your shooting skills, as it is with the PT test, every six months with E-7s and above grading the younger ranks. But we are graded in advance by either our peers or seniors and with officers. What are your questions? Remember the Infantry is the back bone of any and all task force that goes to war with a enemy and this is where this MOS separates the boys from the men!! Remember the Spartans? they pride them selves as being what I say like infantry soldiers we are today! We fight to the end, for there is no delaying, no re-treating, no holding ground, only advancing forward and kill the threat completely and accomplish the mission fully!!! Spartans Kills Tanks!!! Friedburg Germany 1/36 Mech Inf....Whowaa!!!!!!!!!!!!
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No. Everyone knows there is the EIB way and the real way to do things. Not short cuts. Just trade secrets. I'm sure it's the same for EFMB. Like using an IV drip chamber as a field expedient cricothyrotomy. Great in the real world but "you are a No Go at this station" in training.
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You people worry about badges when there are far too many "soldiers" who have difficulties with CTT (That's everybody's job regardless of the MOS, too many people fail to realize this and it slips by the wayside). It's was a sad state of affairs when I'd witnessed a squad fail for hours attempting to set up a GP medium. It's 6 soldiers and 15 minutes.
As far as the army is concerned, once you MOSQ you are an expert, period. You being an expert makes you accountable.
As far as the army is concerned, once you MOSQ you are an expert, period. You being an expert makes you accountable.
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Army Aviators are required to stay current and have to pass annual, at the least, flight, and oral examinations or loose their flight status, flight pay, flight suit, aviator sun glasses (no not the sunglasses), OK, maybe not the sunglasses. But, here I go, speaking without knowledge, I think they get to keep the wings. Once you earn them, you keep them. One of the old W4s or W5 can fill us all in on that.
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Your logic totally misses the mark. Army regulations require annual marksmanship qualification.
The Ranger tab and Parachutist badge are awarded on a one-time basis because you successfully complete the respective courses. The EIB/EFMB are a series of tests that must be passed in order for the badge to be awarded.
Bottom line is that regulations require requalification annually, therefore it is a temporary award.
The others are awarded on a permanent basis.
The Ranger tab and Parachutist badge are awarded on a one-time basis because you successfully complete the respective courses. The EIB/EFMB are a series of tests that must be passed in order for the badge to be awarded.
Bottom line is that regulations require requalification annually, therefore it is a temporary award.
The others are awarded on a permanent basis.
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