Posted on Mar 5, 2014
Should the military grant a 4 year "General Studies" degree to soldiers whom have served in the Armed Forces?
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I am currently working with a LTC who is pursuing his PhD and at current, is posing a question for a research paper about the military partnering with higher education institutions with the question above.
In an economy with a financial crisis, and knowing that a four-year degree is starting to become the “standard” certification for employment beyond the military, should the military actively push this initiative?
I know from my experiences, working on the civilian government side, that it is virtually impossible to switch to a GS grade job without a degree. With all of the training and education that the Armed Forces provide for its SMs should that equate to an earned degree after service? If so, why? And how long should
the soldier serve before earning a “general studies” degree?
In an economy with a financial crisis, and knowing that a four-year degree is starting to become the “standard” certification for employment beyond the military, should the military actively push this initiative?
I know from my experiences, working on the civilian government side, that it is virtually impossible to switch to a GS grade job without a degree. With all of the training and education that the Armed Forces provide for its SMs should that equate to an earned degree after service? If so, why? And how long should
the soldier serve before earning a “general studies” degree?
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Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 119
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I think the military should partner with higher education to offer a soldier a general BS or BA degree depending on their MOS. The requirement should be that the soldier honorably retire with the minimum of 15 years of service. Military personnel with this amount of years served have 4 times more experience and education than those entering the workforce with their choice of degree field. Not to include doctors, attorneys, etc. What else a person with 20yrs in logistics can learn in college that he/she haven't learned? This is just one example.
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Definitely not. The American Council on Education already offers recommendations on what your military training is worth in terms of educational credits. For example, something like an AH-64 Repairer receives 12 hours towards an undergraduate education while something like Ranger school would receive 9 hours. For technical jobs/courses, some of these credits might fulfill coursework directly related to a major; however, most will just take the place of gen eds or elective hours. From basic training and AIT alone, a soldier could get fairly close 30 hours... not a bad start on an Associate degree.
http://www.acenet.edu/news-room/Pages/Military-Guide-Online.aspx
http://www.acenet.edu/news-room/Pages/Military-Guide-Online.aspx
Online guide for military students returning to college
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I think that if we are going to offer our troops a degree it should be related to the job they did in the service and that it also take into consideration what job they did and the training they recieved. i.e. I was a Hospital Corpsman (HM-0000, HM-8404, HM-9502) I spent a lot of time in the service working rotating shifts, deployed with the Marines and training others. for 10 years on active duty and 5 years in the reserves - No degree and the civilian world only takes bits and pieces of my training to apply towards a degree.... All of my training should count towards a degree and of course I should have to complete the rest to get a degree that is useful in the real world.... A whole lot of people need to come together on this. I agree it should not just be a given.
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We already get some college level credits from being in the military. I see no reason to give a 4 year degree away. I think the military and the Gov't and the schools (some anyway) already do a lot for service folk. Being to lazy to go get and use the things you are offered should not be rewarded. I mean if we give a degree away what is next? A Masters for 10 years service? A PhD. for 20 years? I know some 20 year vets that can barely manage their bank account I would not think they deserve a PhD let alone a 4 year GS Degree just cause they survive 20 years in the military. I have 17 years and do not think I have earned a free degree in any educational degree. I attend classes and I have a 2 year degree and am going to get a 4 year degree. Having it given to me would make it almost worthless, anything earned with hard work is worth much more than anything given.
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giving more college credit for courses, yes. giving degrees away to everyone that shows up for 4 years...not sure about that
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SGM (Join to see)
The operative word is GIVE. As opposed to EARN. We've earned a lot, even if we don't get it. Respect, if nothing else. But I don't think service earns a degree.
BE SURE. You were right to disagree.
BE SURE. You were right to disagree.
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I always say I have a Master's Degree in International Relations and Conflict resolution from the School of Hard Knocks, a campus of the Benning School for Boys ha ha. In reality, with all the nonsense I've been subjected to and schools I've been to in my 13 year career, I'd say the 26 credits I was awarded through JST was more or less fair, maybe a little shy but hardly worth 120 credits in 4 years, even with a difficult deployment under my belt. It took me 9 years to use my education benefits but that's what they're there for
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I can see that for some specialty ratings. ET, Nuke schools, and other things. Even storekeeper should have the option of gaining a degree with emphisis in bookeeping. Thing is a general studies college degree involves math, history,english, science, and phycology/sociology studies and a foriegn language or speach. In ET school, I know I didn't get all that, although an electricity/electronics associates degree wouldn't be amiss. I don't think you could get any college to agree to more than a specialist's certification. Even so, professional certifications that were accepted by the industry would be a step up from nothing.
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Absolutely not. In what way does your military training equate to a 4 year degree? Credits, sure, a Bachelor of Arts or Science? No. My BS degree has value for employers because it comes from a public institution which teaches an accredited curriculum. An employer knows that I dont just understand a specific field, but i have also had a certain level of general education in English, Language, mathematics, social studies, philosphy,etc that give me other skills. The military does a poir job of teaching mathematics and English....they dont do it. Issuing a 4 year degree without required baseline instruction, such as additional college courses in the basics makes the degree, literally, BS. If you want a degree,,get up at 6am, go to classes, interact and do group projects. Learn. Freebies and buy a degree online are not the way to go. I see plenty of 20 year vets with no college who cant type, read well, or be generally useful outside their military duties. No degree for you.
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Personally, I like the idea. I am not sure what the in-service requirements would need to be though. However, I think there is merit to it when you consider what a SNCO completes by the end of a career.
Basic Training
AIT
SSD 1 - 80 hours
WLC
SSD 2 (Formerly known as Common Core) - 80 hours
ALC (My MOS is 240 academic hours)
SSD 3 - 80 hours
SLC (my MOS another 240 academic hours)
SSD 4 - 80 hours
This doesn't take into account any other formalized training that NCOES doesn't cover that we take from year to year and during the course of a career.
Basic Training
AIT
SSD 1 - 80 hours
WLC
SSD 2 (Formerly known as Common Core) - 80 hours
ALC (My MOS is 240 academic hours)
SSD 3 - 80 hours
SLC (my MOS another 240 academic hours)
SSD 4 - 80 hours
This doesn't take into account any other formalized training that NCOES doesn't cover that we take from year to year and during the course of a career.
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SGT Jason Anderson
...and you can get transferable credit for that stuff now. But a full degree? Hell no.
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SFC (Join to see)
And the amount of transferrable credit for the Army is negligible. Many of our courses are not evaluated by ACE and get zero credit. So, if the answer is to be no, why not reform how the Army tracks training. The Air Force has the CCAF (Community College of the Air Force) and has a college equivalent transcript for all of their training while the Army doesn't. I am not sure about the Navy or Corps.
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SGM (Join to see)
The REASON is not transferable wouldn't be because it's not equivalent to a college course, would it?
When I was a senior NCO, the ONE thing I had the least use for was a private wearing sergeant stripes. You shouldn't get to be a sergeant for longevity. It should require the ability to supervise, to correct, to direct, to lead, to look for problems to solve, to get those problems solved without having to ask the PSG or 1SG how, ... did I miss anything?
Now you want to give college degrees away. Is an uneducated boob with a degree worth more or less than an uneducated boob without a degree? (Trick question, the boob with the degree is worth less, just like the private with sergeant stripes is worth less.)
You've obviously accepted some responsibility for your career and must have done something right. Why can't you take responsibility for your education? You are a sergeant, and we are the blue collar workers in the company called the Army. If you want to be white collar, get your degree and do it. But don't expect to be promoted to white collar just because of the job you have done as blue collar.
When I was a senior NCO, the ONE thing I had the least use for was a private wearing sergeant stripes. You shouldn't get to be a sergeant for longevity. It should require the ability to supervise, to correct, to direct, to lead, to look for problems to solve, to get those problems solved without having to ask the PSG or 1SG how, ... did I miss anything?
Now you want to give college degrees away. Is an uneducated boob with a degree worth more or less than an uneducated boob without a degree? (Trick question, the boob with the degree is worth less, just like the private with sergeant stripes is worth less.)
You've obviously accepted some responsibility for your career and must have done something right. Why can't you take responsibility for your education? You are a sergeant, and we are the blue collar workers in the company called the Army. If you want to be white collar, get your degree and do it. But don't expect to be promoted to white collar just because of the job you have done as blue collar.
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While the idea is nice, it takes away from those of us putting our GI Bill to use and will make the "norm" for gainful employment become a Master's.
A point that can be made about this idea is: If you work in a support job, there are educational institutions out there that will award an Associate's in your field if you have x amount of years and can pass the required testing for those that go to school for that field. There are also institutions that do security certifications and degrees for those in combat arms as well.
A point that can be made about this idea is: If you work in a support job, there are educational institutions out there that will award an Associate's in your field if you have x amount of years and can pass the required testing for those that go to school for that field. There are also institutions that do security certifications and degrees for those in combat arms as well.
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