Posted on Mar 5, 2014
Should the military grant a 4 year "General Studies" degree to soldiers whom have served in the Armed Forces?
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I am currently working with a LTC who is pursuing his PhD and at current, is posing a question for a research paper about the military partnering with higher education institutions with the question above.
In an economy with a financial crisis, and knowing that a four-year degree is starting to become the “standard” certification for employment beyond the military, should the military actively push this initiative?
I know from my experiences, working on the civilian government side, that it is virtually impossible to switch to a GS grade job without a degree. With all of the training and education that the Armed Forces provide for its SMs should that equate to an earned degree after service? If so, why? And how long should
the soldier serve before earning a “general studies” degree?
In an economy with a financial crisis, and knowing that a four-year degree is starting to become the “standard” certification for employment beyond the military, should the military actively push this initiative?
I know from my experiences, working on the civilian government side, that it is virtually impossible to switch to a GS grade job without a degree. With all of the training and education that the Armed Forces provide for its SMs should that equate to an earned degree after service? If so, why? And how long should
the soldier serve before earning a “general studies” degree?
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 119
It has to be case by case basis, I have done 20 years and have done many schools. So a degree would be nice. If you do 4 years and just get out with nothing but basic schools then no.
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I would agree that some MOS's could grant something CLOSE to an Associates in a technical field (think an Applied Associates of Science), but without classes like Writing/Composition, Literature, some type of Visual or Performing Arts, and College Algebra (or higher level of mathematics), any degree granted would be viewed with prejudice in addition to likely having no transferability (meaning SM's would STILL have to take those classes again to get a degree on the civilian side). Additionally, you would have to factor in accreditation (that's a whole crazy other can of worms). If ALL of the branches had something like the Community College of the Air Force, this COULD become a reality...
EDIT: After some additional thought, I feel that maybe the original question really shows a complete lack of understanding regarding what institutions of higher education are really about. I don't know if you're just undervaluing a college education or overvaluing military training.
EDIT: After some additional thought, I feel that maybe the original question really shows a complete lack of understanding regarding what institutions of higher education are really about. I don't know if you're just undervaluing a college education or overvaluing military training.
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I am of the mind that this won't work. You don't walk away from 4 years in the military with the equivalent of 4 years of study. Yes your military training for your MOS or Rating should be translatable for credit but there's so much that you are not studying that goes into a Bachelor's that you don't get from just being in the military.
I do wholeheartedly believe that 4 years in a military specialty that translates a civilian profession should equate to a completed apprenticeship in any of the fields that have an apprentice/journeyman/masters type licensing though. I know that some if not all Navy rates are that way, Electricians, Culinary Arts, etc.
I do wholeheartedly believe that 4 years in a military specialty that translates a civilian profession should equate to a completed apprenticeship in any of the fields that have an apprentice/journeyman/masters type licensing though. I know that some if not all Navy rates are that way, Electricians, Culinary Arts, etc.
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I don't think that the military should do that. I earned my associates degree in general studies through credit for military training (Basic Training, MOS Schools, NCOES) and college classes. At the four-year level, a "General Studies" degree is the equivalent of a 120 semester hour Liberal Arts degree. I'm a graduate of the Warrant Officer Staff Course, but I don't deserve a degree just because I went to a senior-level military course among the many others that I took and served more than 20 years in active duty service. If a degree is given to everyone, then it subsequently devalues a degree. I earned my bachelor's and master's degrees in the classroom, on my time. If the military wants to award degrees as it does for some Field Grade Officer residential training, then the degree should be in Military Studies or Military Science only. I'm sure there are some exceptions such as TLOG, IT, medical training, etc. Civilians who never served in the military have to balance education and employment as well, whether part-time or full-time. Plus, as government employees, veterans are given hiring preference over civilian counterparts just for serving honorably.
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Here are my thoughts.
1. The military does not "pay for you to get a degree". They pay for you to get a degree *if* it is available in your location and your work schedule allows. Want to be an IT or Criminal Justice type, you're probably OK, if you go to an online school or have forgiving hours. Have a flexible schedule, desk job where you make your own hours? Likewise.
Want to be an engineer, or a technical degree the equivalent of your military job [Marketable]? Fat Chance.
2. The cap on the GI Bill often doesn't come close to the out-of-state tuition many states add. If you're still active duty, this may not be as big an issue, bit there's still #1 to contend with.
3. A generic, across the board degree for all military isn't a solution, but rather, if we're turning people into technical experts, a serious look at degrees and certifications earned by their civilian counterparts (when there are any) should be considered. There is something inherently wrong when military technicians are some of the best in the world, but after 10-20 years experience cannot laterally transfer into a similar civilian job just like coming from a competing company. It should be like for like, rather than scrambling to find a school, blowing GI Bill on it, then compete on the market as the "old guy" for an entry level job, when one has done it for decades.
4. Student loans are a bane even when one is young. Older, with a family to feed, trying to learn a "new" career? A veteran may never reach the seniority to make that loan worthwhile, or affordable, especially if also supporting a family.
So in summary, this needs to be looked at, but not in a generic, useless, across the board manner, so much as with respect to making service members actually marketable laterally, in similar civilian jobs, when they separate. If that's a degree, great, a certification? OK. They need to be made available as a part of training and experience.
3.
1. The military does not "pay for you to get a degree". They pay for you to get a degree *if* it is available in your location and your work schedule allows. Want to be an IT or Criminal Justice type, you're probably OK, if you go to an online school or have forgiving hours. Have a flexible schedule, desk job where you make your own hours? Likewise.
Want to be an engineer, or a technical degree the equivalent of your military job [Marketable]? Fat Chance.
2. The cap on the GI Bill often doesn't come close to the out-of-state tuition many states add. If you're still active duty, this may not be as big an issue, bit there's still #1 to contend with.
3. A generic, across the board degree for all military isn't a solution, but rather, if we're turning people into technical experts, a serious look at degrees and certifications earned by their civilian counterparts (when there are any) should be considered. There is something inherently wrong when military technicians are some of the best in the world, but after 10-20 years experience cannot laterally transfer into a similar civilian job just like coming from a competing company. It should be like for like, rather than scrambling to find a school, blowing GI Bill on it, then compete on the market as the "old guy" for an entry level job, when one has done it for decades.
4. Student loans are a bane even when one is young. Older, with a family to feed, trying to learn a "new" career? A veteran may never reach the seniority to make that loan worthwhile, or affordable, especially if also supporting a family.
So in summary, this needs to be looked at, but not in a generic, useless, across the board manner, so much as with respect to making service members actually marketable laterally, in similar civilian jobs, when they separate. If that's a degree, great, a certification? OK. They need to be made available as a part of training and experience.
3.
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I love my brothers and sisters in arms, but I'm sorry there are plenty of service members that have a lot of years of service and even rank but still haven't developed the life skills or knowledge to be considered "educated" in the college degree sense.
On the other hand, I know of a few people, military and civilian, who have college degrees but still come off as not that bright. That however falls under the aegis of quality control by the degree-granting institution.
As others have stated below, the DoD pays, via Tuition Assistance and the GI Bill, for those in uniform who wish to educate themselves. To me it is still the best way to go. I honestly think that if everyone in uniform gets a "degree" after a certain amount of service, then goes out into the civilian workforce, after a while some of us will ruin the credibility of that degree and of the military in general.
On the other hand, I know of a few people, military and civilian, who have college degrees but still come off as not that bright. That however falls under the aegis of quality control by the degree-granting institution.
As others have stated below, the DoD pays, via Tuition Assistance and the GI Bill, for those in uniform who wish to educate themselves. To me it is still the best way to go. I honestly think that if everyone in uniform gets a "degree" after a certain amount of service, then goes out into the civilian workforce, after a while some of us will ruin the credibility of that degree and of the military in general.
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Yes, I started college last year and in total base on all of my training I will be walking out with a general studies degree in less than two years. I only needed to do my core studies, the other 100ish elective credits comes from the military.
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Though, I do not believe that a college degree should not be given away, the military should follow up on the programs that they start to transition from the military an opportunity to earn a college degree. After retirement I spent two years of visiting my local college admissions office to try to register with the "troops to teachers" program.They had no clue until I showed it to them on their own computer. I finally made an appointment with the Dean of the college who sent me back to the admissions office that told me they knew nothing about the program. I would like to see certification be transferable in the civilian world such as A&P, CDL etc....
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TSgt Tim Walker
My fingers are not working this morning. Believe me, I can write a complete sentence.
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In the USCG, most of our courses and training is worth college credits. Combine that with the MGIB and I think that's fair enough.
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