Posted on Sep 17, 2021
Should the military upgrade bad marijuana discharges?
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Now that marijuana has been legalized in the majority of the US and the stigma against it has changed, smoking weed is akin to smoking cigarettes, and some would argue smoking cigarettes is more harmful. I was looking at the Army DRB and they seem to be approving or changing discharges for people who were discharge solely for marijuana usage. I’m not 100% sure but I assume it’s because the narrative surrounding weed has changed.
So in your opinion should the military as a whole upgrade or edit discharges that were based solely on marijuana usage?
So in your opinion should the military as a whole upgrade or edit discharges that were based solely on marijuana usage?
Discharge
Drugs
Law
DD214
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 29
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No. Even if marijuana is legalized on the federal level in the future, these individuals still broke the law when they decided to get high. Alcohol is perfectly legal, but if a Soldier is caught drunk on duty they, too, will be punished.
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LtCol Robert Quinter
A1C Chris Pointer - So the "blue discharge" ended in 47; the general under honorable or less than honorable conditions was issued based upon overall performance, meaning, if a serviceperson exhibited continuous conduct less than his contemporaries he potentially received the less than honorable. To earn less than average conduct evaluations meant that the individual was subject to administrative action to correct conduct deficiencies. The old saw about drugs, booze and firearms not being killers is irrelevant. People make decisions that result in other peoples' death or injury and should be held accountable for those decisions. Regarding Lemon, his actions earned him the medal.
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A1C Chris Pointer
The Blue Ticket Discharge: A Color that has Stained the Lives of WWII-Era Veterans for Over 75...
Red, white, and blue are three powerfully symbolic colors. After the Continental Congress passed a resolution on July 4, 1776 “authorizing a committee to devise a seal for the United States of America,” the Secretary of the Continental Congress submitted a report declaring that blue shall be the “the color of the Chief” and thereby “signifies vigilance, perseverance & justice.”[1] Yet for more than 48,000 Army soldiers, blue constituted the...
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LtCol Robert Quinter
A1C Chris Pointer - The article talks of "injustice" and new reversals, but never explains how the individuals were not disobedient of regulations in effect at the time. Compliance with group standards of conduct and unity of purpose were as important 75 years ago as they are now, and utilizing a standard that was changed 75 years ago is irrelevant.
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No. They willfully broke law and regs. The fact that states are changing their laws does not excuse that.
"Some would argue smoking cigarettes is more harmful" . Some also argue the opposite.
"Some would argue smoking cigarettes is more harmful" . Some also argue the opposite.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
A1C Chris Pointer - Yes it is fair because they did not keep their oaths! They did not serve honorably! They deserved the Big Chicken Dinner (BCD: Bad Conduct Discharge) that their disobedience to the regulation earned them. They placed getting high ahead of their duty, ahead of their honor, ahead of the oath they took to follow the regulations.
No way no how should they be upgraded nor should anyone forget that they were people of Dishonor.
No way no how should they be upgraded nor should anyone forget that they were people of Dishonor.
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A1C Chris Pointer
SSG Roger Ayscue I think this is a funny response. Especially SM are always preaching about taking care of veterans, but are then quick to condem them to lives of hardship for the smallest thing
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SSG Roger Ayscue
A1C Chris Pointer - The littlest thing? Getting high and failing to do your duty.
Putting getting high ahead of your job as a member of the armed forces? IF you had to serve in combat next to a stoner you would not think the way you do... OR are YOU a stoner that can't understand why it is so bad?
I think maybe you are a stoner and you don't want to get into trouble when you melt the bottom of the Piss test bottle...
IF you can't control getting high then get OUT of the service and make room for someone that can obey orders
Putting getting high ahead of your job as a member of the armed forces? IF you had to serve in combat next to a stoner you would not think the way you do... OR are YOU a stoner that can't understand why it is so bad?
I think maybe you are a stoner and you don't want to get into trouble when you melt the bottom of the Piss test bottle...
IF you can't control getting high then get OUT of the service and make room for someone that can obey orders
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LtCol Robert Quinter
A1C Chris Pointer - Would you be willing to fly on an aircraft repaired by an individual under the influence? As a pilot I would not consider that a small thing. Save the honorable discharge for those who performed their duties consistent with the regs and placed the welfare of others above their desire for an escape from reality.
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At this time Marijuana is still considered illegal at the federal level. And it is the federal level that impacts military law and discharges. Not saying it is a bad idea, just a lot of hurdles to overcome yet.
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On what grounds? Marijuana is still schedule 1 federally and Military members are federal employees. This is definitely a conversation that could happen if/when Marijuana is legal in the eyes of the federal government.
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A1C Chris Pointer
SSgt Christophe Murphy I’m in mobile so I’ll have to double check but under the 2020 DRB folder click on just about any of them. I started from the bottom of the list
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SSgt Christophe Murphy
A1C Chris Pointer I just looked at the 2020 DRb files and checked from the bottom up. Out of the first 10 only one was approved and it wasn’t drug related. I’m just not seeing what you are claiming. If you see something please provide the FD number or case file number.
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A1C Chris Pointer
https://boards.law.af.mil/ARMY/DRB/CY2020/AR [login to see] 7.txt
https://boards.law.af.mil/ARMY/DRB/CY2020/AR [login to see] 8.txt
https://boards.law.af.mil/ARMY/DRB/CY2020/AR [login to see] 1.txt
https://boards.law.af.mil/ARMY/DRB/CY2020/AR [login to see] 8.txt
https://boards.law.af.mil/ARMY/DRB/CY2020/AR [login to see] 1.txt
1. Applicant's Name: a. Application Date: 6 August 2020 b. Date Received: 24 September 2020 c. Counsel: None 2. REQUEST, ISSUES, BOARD TYPE, AND DECISION: The applicant requests an upgrade of his general (under honorable conditions) discharge to honorable. The applicant seeks relief contending, in effect, due to combat situations and his diagnosis of PTSD, he requests an upgrade. The applicant has had no issues and has been with his current...
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SSgt Christophe Murphy
A1C Chris Pointer I think these are very unique as there was more involved than just drug use. PTSD is a major factor but also not a common factor especially in the AF. I looked at plenty of submissions that were denied and I think the circumstances, context and situation has a lot to do with that. I wouldn’t think it would be a sign of the DOD changing their stance
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If that were to happen, would it not be fair to expunge the records of all persons convicted on marijuana charges?
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SFC (Join to see)
That’s happened in the states that have decriminalized it. If they were in prison or convicted at state level in states which have decriminalized it their being released and their records expunged.
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MCPO Hilary Kunz
I agree with expunging for civilian folks, but the charges were disobeying a lawful order, or something similar, which I think military drug convictions are, that changes the offense to a non-cannabis conviction. I think someone else said it, I have mixed feelings about it.
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MCPO Hilary Kunz
A1C Chris Pointer - Yeah, idk myself, I just remember the Mast cases and the charges filed. That was seagoing Navy, the UCMJ and Navy Regs apply differently, and I’m relying on a failing memory, lol, so I have no “proof”, but I do remember a cocaine conviction that was disobedience of a lawful order.
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Absolutely not. Disobeying an order is still disobeying an order. At the time, these individuals knew that what they were doing was punishable under UCMJ, and chose to do it anyway. That's a decision they made. Decisions have consequences.
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No. It's illegal to be drunk on duty, high should make no difference. While living in CA, I was asked several times if I wanted to "smoke". My response was always, "sure, if you don't mind me working on aircraft that fly over your house." They never asked again.
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In my opinion, absolutely not! It was and still is illegal on a federal level, and honestly I hope it stays that way forever... or at the least in my life time. They were completely aware of the regs and laws when they broke them, they willingly engaged in actions knowing they were wrong.
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MCPO Hilary Kunz
I was in the same frame of mind with you there, for a while, but after a decade of taking Vicodin daily, medical cannabis got me off it, changed everything. While on Vicodin I held multiple jobs, acted as a race official, drove everywhere, and that was all legal and above board. I was jaundiced, despite being an outdoor person, irritable, and had multiple health issues hitting me at one, didn’t have long to go at that rate. My buddies could ID me in the dark by my “impaired gait”.
I walk better, feel better, lost a bunch of weight, and I don’t have perma-pain. Cannabis therapy should available from the VA, but politics. (The original law was put together by a racist guy in 1937 to control people of color. He received funding from DuPont, because they couldn’t sell nylon while hemp was available. You can’t make this stuff up.) Fruit of the tainted tree, etc…
The government continued the war on drugs as a measure to control “hippies and blacks”, and Joe Biden was a huge part of that. It gave him a “law and order” stance, while ripping apart Black communities across our nation.
So, banned by the government, research was also stifled if it didn’t provide the results wanted. The Jamaica study on pregnant women, for example, found a positive correlation between cannabis use and outcomes of labor and delivery, as well as followup on the children. The researcher was fired.
The reason that they can’t judge levels is because everyone’s cannabinoid receptors are different. 10% of the human population is unaffected by cannabis, for example, and a small amount have varied negative side effects. It might not help “generic you”, but it’s medication for hundreds of thousands.
Banning a medication from people who need it? Do you want to ban my BP pills as well? They really affect my driving.
I’ve reduced my medication intake from 36 pills to 24 a day, dropping the side effects as well. It helps pain, anxiety, depression, nausea, mood, and more.
The upper safe dose of cannabis? You can’t overdose. How many barfights started by people on cannabis? Pretty close to none, it mellows one out. Available good research? Quite limited.
That doesn’t change my opinion on disobedience of a lawful order in terms of using cannabis while on active duty. You have to be on top of your game aboard ship, or people can get hurt.
I walk better, feel better, lost a bunch of weight, and I don’t have perma-pain. Cannabis therapy should available from the VA, but politics. (The original law was put together by a racist guy in 1937 to control people of color. He received funding from DuPont, because they couldn’t sell nylon while hemp was available. You can’t make this stuff up.) Fruit of the tainted tree, etc…
The government continued the war on drugs as a measure to control “hippies and blacks”, and Joe Biden was a huge part of that. It gave him a “law and order” stance, while ripping apart Black communities across our nation.
So, banned by the government, research was also stifled if it didn’t provide the results wanted. The Jamaica study on pregnant women, for example, found a positive correlation between cannabis use and outcomes of labor and delivery, as well as followup on the children. The researcher was fired.
The reason that they can’t judge levels is because everyone’s cannabinoid receptors are different. 10% of the human population is unaffected by cannabis, for example, and a small amount have varied negative side effects. It might not help “generic you”, but it’s medication for hundreds of thousands.
Banning a medication from people who need it? Do you want to ban my BP pills as well? They really affect my driving.
I’ve reduced my medication intake from 36 pills to 24 a day, dropping the side effects as well. It helps pain, anxiety, depression, nausea, mood, and more.
The upper safe dose of cannabis? You can’t overdose. How many barfights started by people on cannabis? Pretty close to none, it mellows one out. Available good research? Quite limited.
That doesn’t change my opinion on disobedience of a lawful order in terms of using cannabis while on active duty. You have to be on top of your game aboard ship, or people can get hurt.
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SSG (Join to see)
MSgt Steve Sweeney okay then. I support parental laws that are in place by the government to protect the safety of the overall community. Much the same reasons I do not speed, and I wear a seat belt, and why I got vaccinated. I feel personal choice must be respected, until the personal choice leads to endangering others, needlessly.
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SSG (Join to see)
MCPO Hilary Kunz I took the question to be about recreational legalization. I am not a Dr, nor would I say that a drug that is legal for medical purposes should not be used. However, much like all medications that impair your ability to operate a vehicle, they clearly stay you should not operate a motor vehicle while taking them. Your specific story makes me happy that to know you are better off... however it does not inspire me to change my stance.
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Nope. They knew (or should have known) the rules/laws/regulations at the time of their offense. Marijuana was and still is illegal at the Federal level and all military members are subject to the restrictions imposed.
As an interesting side note....Even if marijuana is legalized at the state and/or Federal level, some employers will still prohibit the use of it. For example, I have a Commercial Driver License (CDL) and an active Paramedic license. Both require that I abstain from the use of cannabis products in order to maintain my license. Doesn't really matter to me either way as I never used and have no plans to in the future. Heck, at this point, even a six-pack of alcoholic beverage lasts me the better part of an entire calendar year.
As an interesting side note....Even if marijuana is legalized at the state and/or Federal level, some employers will still prohibit the use of it. For example, I have a Commercial Driver License (CDL) and an active Paramedic license. Both require that I abstain from the use of cannabis products in order to maintain my license. Doesn't really matter to me either way as I never used and have no plans to in the future. Heck, at this point, even a six-pack of alcoholic beverage lasts me the better part of an entire calendar year.
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SPC Lyle Montgomery
I am a retired union Millwright and did a lot of work in neuclear power plants. If you get called for a fit for duty random test (piss test) and show drugs in your urine ,you are fired and escorted off site and can't work in a nuke plant for 5 years, if ever. Also other places don,t allow pot in your system at all. If you want a good job, you should grow up and leave the drugs alone.
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A1C Chris Pointer "smoking weed is akin to smoking cigarettes,", Nope. akin to a couple shots of liquor maybe, depending on the potency.
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