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Here is an interesting Forbes article on the merits of vocational training in high school as opposed to the college prep education. What are your thoughts?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholaswyman/2015/09/01/why-we-desperately-need-to-bring-back-vocational-training-in-schools/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholaswyman/2015/09/01/why-we-desperately-need-to-bring-back-vocational-training-in-schools/
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 23
Both should be available options for the student. If not one, than at least the other!
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At the very least LTC (Join to see), vocational training should be offered as an alternative to college prep education.
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MCPO Roger Collins
We here in TN have passed legislation to provide free two year tuition for anyone wanting to go to college. To me that is a total waste of money. Test for the aptitude and intelligence to complete college then make the criteria that may benefit the state, since we are paying for the education. Many would go for Vocational Training that is available under this plan, that is good. Now don't you all go to TN for that reason or out lack of income tax. Welcome mat IS out for good conservatives with money, though.
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I am retired as a teacher. I taught math. My district has trashed vocational education except a couple courses. All high schools had it and most middle schools used to have it. Now all students have to take the college prep courses required for University of California admission. They also put students in higher math courses before they understand the previous course. They water down the curriculum so the more challenged students can pass and the advanced ones don’t get what they need. Many students take algebra but can’t balance a checkbook or do percents. The slower students are sometimes put in an extra support class for math and English so they can catch them up; in the meantime they can’t take the fun courses; then they dislike school more. I can understand that the school districts want to make college more accessible to more students. However, they shouldn’t force it on them! Offer that college prep track to any student that want to try it and give them appropriate support. Let those who want a vocational track pursue it. Some students may prefer to delay college and either go to a vocational school, get a job or join the military, where they get great college benefits and take a few college courses at a time or go later in their career. Many people do very well by waiting they would be more mature and able to handle the courses. The military or community colleges can give them the courses they need later to they need to matriculate to a 4 year college.
School systems must restore vocational, culinary, business education. They can tie academics to the practical classes and the students would then see the relevance for it; ie. business or shop math (which would include geometry as well as some algebra and trig)
School systems must restore vocational, culinary, business education. They can tie academics to the practical classes and the students would then see the relevance for it; ie. business or shop math (which would include geometry as well as some algebra and trig)
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If everyone goes to college and no one experiences vocational training, then who do I call to repair my appliances, plumbing, electrical, ............
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COL Ted Mc
LCpl Dan McTiernan - Lance Corporal; You call Manuel, Chiang, or Achmed who came from societies where people simply couldn't afford to trash things and buy new ones whenever some small part went out of whack. [You DO NOT ask to see their "Green Card".]
You then complain about the "illegal immigrants" who are "taking American jobs".
You then complain about the "illegal immigrants" who are "taking American jobs".
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LCpl Dan McTiernan
Col Ted, you have a pretty myopic view of the world and vocational training. Always begin with end in mind and view others as you view yourself. There are tremendous opportunities for our youth who all do not strive for corporate life. And yes, there should be room for those coming to this country as we remain the greatest land of opportunity. Isn't that why we all serve(d), that is to maintain our freedoms and provide freedoms for those who come after us. Yesterday during a volunteer construction activity a friend and volunteer commented on how his desk office body struggled during manual labor, moving materials, spray painting, recovering callouses from the previous weeks volunteerism. Oft times we forget during workforce planning to include the development rather replacement of our steady eddies and steady ediths, those that are the backbone of our economic structure. Interesting that a former employees husband has a PhD in Physics, yet chooses to work installing telecommunications systems in metro Denver. Yes, his PhD is from Pakistan, his passion is the US.
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YES! I think we push college too much in our society, because not every one should go to college and you see less and less trades being taught. It's not a bad thing to be college educated, but we need people to do trades, and I looked around my area and they are very few trade schools, and the ones that do exist are lacking.
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I was truly and well surprised when I discovered that vocational education had been severely cut and, in some places, totally eliminated. One day, while living in California, I asked why? I was told that leaders of the Civil Rights Movement had complained that minorities were being shunted into vocational education classes and schools by virtue of prejudices that averred that they were incapable of coping with academic education or college-prep classes. As a result, everyone was being shunted into courses for which they had no interest or competence regardless of race, gender, religion, or nationality. This may help explain why high school drop out rates are so high. Fortunately, community colleges seem to be picking up the slack. One such institution near where I live offers all manner of vocational training and excels at it. However, students must first endure high school to get there and many have the desire to learn beaten out of them by a one-size-fits-all curriculum. Sad...
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Yes - and here is why. Not to discredit a lot of hard work by many high school students the truth is many of the college prep students are poorly prepared for college either academically or financially. Student loan debt is at a record high at over $1 trillion, and the average undergraduate who borrows to attend school graduates is nearly $30,000 in debt before they have a job. Also almost 20 percent of all student loan borrowers are in default. Despite these facts POTUS has encourage this reckless debt with IBR plans (Income-based repayment plans to protect students from early career struggles, layoffs and tough economic times). Contrary to the concept this removal of the finacial entrance barrier just further devalues a college education while at the same time flooding the market with degree holders with bad GPA's thus lowering starting salaries. I certainly feel the trades have suffered in the US because of the emphasis we have put on a college degree. However persuading high school kids that getting your hands dirty is the right fit might be even more of a challenge.
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The guy who hosted dirty jobs has been pushing this for a while now. He has a non profit set up, but it is geared towards high school students.
http://profoundlydisconnected.com/foundation/
Vo-Tech is the only reason I made it through high school myself and I took the whole "college is the only way to succeed" bait and now I am stuck in a job that is not a good fit for me. Now no one will take my technical experience seriously, all they see is my last job and my degree. I think the Vo-Tech program should be revised along with college so that equal weight should be given to both, and maybe allow for a combination of them to help prepare some to go on to running their own businesses.
http://profoundlydisconnected.com/foundation/
Vo-Tech is the only reason I made it through high school myself and I took the whole "college is the only way to succeed" bait and now I am stuck in a job that is not a good fit for me. Now no one will take my technical experience seriously, all they see is my last job and my degree. I think the Vo-Tech program should be revised along with college so that equal weight should be given to both, and maybe allow for a combination of them to help prepare some to go on to running their own businesses.
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LTC (Join to see) I am an IT Technician. This is a field where VO TECH is the way to go. You can spend $30,000-$150,000 on a degree that is irrelevant in three years when it comes to this field. Going the certification route you get the initial training and certification, then you maintain it. It is my personal opinion that the maintenance of training is where the real benefit lies. It doesn't matter what the trade is, if the technology and skills needed to maintain a profession change, the training that comes with it is far more valuable than anything taught in a classroom.
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LTC (Join to see)
PO3 Steven Sherrill geek to geek, I agree. Give me someone with real hands on experience or tech school any day.
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LCpl Dan McTiernan
If you want a good consultant in IT, often you are best served by hiring a kid from the local high school. Self taught and very knowledgeable about current technology applications.
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LTC (Join to see) - Colonel; The biggest problem with "Vocational Training" is that if the student cannot master the course content then they cannot get their "certificate" by pursuing "alternative content" and/or writing a two page paper explaining why the course content is "reactionary".
Face it, I sure don't want a welder or a mechanic who achieved a "social pass" working on my vehicles and I certainly don't want someone with a Gratuitous Educational Documentation doing research/technical work for me.
Face it, I sure don't want a welder or a mechanic who achieved a "social pass" working on my vehicles and I certainly don't want someone with a Gratuitous Educational Documentation doing research/technical work for me.
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LTC (Join to see)
COL Ted Mc I agree with you, availability of a training resource will not guarantee success of everyone. It would offer an alternative to the college prep curriculum.
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COL Ted Mc
LTC (Join to see) - Colonel; Indeed it will offer an alternative.
Now the problem is to convince the parents that their functionally illiterate children should become tradespeople in the skilled trades (where being able to read, understand, and follow directions are important) and live in a milieu where actually being where you are supposed to be, when you are supposed to be there, with whatever you are supposed to have with you, and prepared to do what you are supposed to do. (We won't even start on what is going to be required to convince the children that they actually have to work at learning if they are going to get any benefit out of it.)
Routine, factory, jobs are likely to become a thing of the past since machines can do repetitive tasks more reliably than people can - and that means that (in the long-run) machines are "cheaper" than people.
Now the problem is to convince the parents that their functionally illiterate children should become tradespeople in the skilled trades (where being able to read, understand, and follow directions are important) and live in a milieu where actually being where you are supposed to be, when you are supposed to be there, with whatever you are supposed to have with you, and prepared to do what you are supposed to do. (We won't even start on what is going to be required to convince the children that they actually have to work at learning if they are going to get any benefit out of it.)
Routine, factory, jobs are likely to become a thing of the past since machines can do repetitive tasks more reliably than people can - and that means that (in the long-run) machines are "cheaper" than people.
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