Posted on Jun 22, 2015
SGM Matthew Quick
190K
1.73K
755
66
66
0
6e0d3e68
What do these US military bases have in common?

Fort Bragg
Fort Rucker
Fort Hood
Fort Lee
Fort Benning
Fort Gordon
Fort A.P. Hill
Fort Polk
Fort Pickett
Camp Beauregard (Operated by the Louisiana National Guard)

They are all named for Confederate generals. There’s been talk for years about whether this is appropriate, and now in wake of Charleston and the South Carolina Confederate flag, it’s coming up again.

Do you think these posts should be renamed to honor people who fought in the U.S. Army exclusively? Vote, and share your thoughts in the comments section below.

Take the Poll:
http://www.stripes.com/military-life/military-history/poll-should-us-military-bases-named-after-confederates-be-renamed-1.353890#
Posted in these groups: E83e9618 Confederate Flag
Edited 9 y ago
Avatar feed
Responses: 282
CSM William Payne
16
16
0
"In 2013, 44% of all military recruits came from the South region of the U.S. despite it having only 36% of the country’s 18-24 year-old civilian population.
Some of the lowest rates of state-by-state enlistment are in New England and the Northeast, Maine notwithstanding. The Northeast of the U.S. was the most underrepresented region of the country for recruitment in 2013: Despite having 18% of the 18-24 year-old civilian population only 14% of new enlistments came from this area."

Outside the beltway.

It has always been a known fact that the military is made up of more conservative members than liberals. Numbers don't lie; the South East, South and Southwest provides more than their fair share of military recruits.

When the Liberal states of the North, Northeast and West step up and provide their fair share of military recruits, then maybe we can start to have a discussion of changing the names of these posts.

It's a good thing that President Lincoln, Generals Grant and Sherman didn't feel the same way about southern Soldiers that many that have not studied the Civil War History feel today or reconciliation may not have nearly so successful.

As someone that was involved in training new recruits for the Army over most of my 40 year military career I can tell you that aside from the issue of slavery, the values and traits that Confederate Soldiers displayed during the Civil War are almost identical to the same values that the Army is looking for today; Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity and Personal Courage. The cause may have been unjust, but the dedication to duty cannot be denied.

Also, keep in mind that none of these posts existed during or shortly after The Civil War but for the most part came about between World War I and World War II.

And if you want to go down that road of comparing Soldiers of the Confederate Army and their cause to Soldiers of Nazi Gemany and Imperialistic Japan, then in my opinion you don't know squat about military history.
(16)
Comment
(0)
SSG Daniel Brewster
SSG Daniel Brewster
9 y
Amen, SgtMaj. Excellent post. As a young man who grew up in the South, I always knew that I would serve. There is a lot about our country (and many countries) that wasn't just, and wasn't right. Having said that, America is still the land of opportunity. Certainly racism still exists, yet the opportunity for each of us (red, white, black, pink, purple) is the basis for our own unique American stories.

I am a southerner and became who I am today based upon the values and education that I received in the South. Erasing what is good about the South won't make things better - it will simply produce generations without those values and commitment to country.
(2)
Reply
(0)
CSM William Payne
CSM William Payne
9 y
Appreciate the kind comments. I grew up in a military family, Dad was career Navy, 37 - 67. He never once said a word to us about joining the military yet my oldest brother joined the Corp in 65, my next brother joined the Navy in 68 and myself the Army. My niece joined the Air Force so we have them all covered. No huge thought process, just seemed like the right thing to do. Unfortunately today, not so much. Thank you for your service to your country and being part of the less than 1% of our country to do so. Much appreciated.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SFC Career Counselor
15
15
0
It's interesting for the first time in many years of U.S. History its identity is being challenged and the Government is internalizing on issues that many have left alone in the "Gray area".  The reaction of many citizens and Soldiers are seemingly indifferent because of the lack of identity in culture and awareness of history. Many elders of the family trees have passed so the current generations don't get to hear the impact of the confederate views and what they stood for or any matter at that.  I say that the names of these Generals should remain because America's history should remain in tact; the good, the bad and the ugly. 
(15)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
Capt Richard I P.
14
13
1
Edited 9 y ago
Yes, they should be. Rename them after MOH recipients from junior to senior. Too little is remembered of these junior ranked heroes after a couple of years.
(14)
Comment
(1)
SGT Edward Thomas
SGT Edward Thomas
9 y
Many of the deployed locations that troops get deployed to are named after MOH recipients.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Capt Richard I P.
Capt Richard I P.
9 y
SGT Edward Thomas edited for your semantic suggestion, while there might be future challenges based on personal views of this MOH winner or another, odds are most would be less conflicted than naming them as they are named.
(2)
Reply
(0)
1SG Military Police
1SG (Join to see)
9 y
Capt Richard I P. Are conflicts regarding the current names of military bases common? Having served a number of years in the FL NG, I don't recall an issue arising while I was around MacDill, Eglin, Patrick or Camp Blanding...
(0)
Reply
(0)
Capt Richard I P.
Capt Richard I P.
9 y
1SG (Join to see) I don't think conflicts about the base names generally are that common, that said the topic of debate raised begged the question.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
CPT Battalion Training Officer
13
13
0
This is stupid. Who educated and trained these leaders and generals? Where did their military careers begin?
(13)
Comment
(0)
CW3 David Covey
CW3 David Covey
9 y
1LT William Clardy - [quote] I confess that I don't know a lot about the brothelry business in either Mexico or the former Republic of Texas during that time period, so I have no idea how many Confederate generals got serviced while serving with the Regular Army in Mexico.
[/quote]

Love it...LMAO..
(1)
Reply
(0)
LCDR Naval Aviator
LCDR (Join to see)
9 y
^Yeah, I almost spit my lemonade when I read that.
(1)
Reply
(0)
Capt Richard I P.
Capt Richard I P.
9 y
1LT(P) L S Thats a good point, and a rather serious one. I suspect he was making a joke based on turn of phrase with no intent to mock rape or atrocity.
(1)
Reply
(0)
1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
9 y
07d75e60
90b379d9
Correct, Capt Richard I P..

When CPT (Join to see) accidentally typed "serviced" while talking about these generals having served as Regular Army officers during the U.S.-Mexican War, I saw (and of course took) an opportunity to briefly lighten the tone with an almost-out-of-the-blue comment about Tex-Mex prostitutes "servicing" the gallant young officers. It appears that my humor hit at least some of its marks (although, if LCDR (Join to see) were a *Real* Naval Officer, his screen would have been spattered with coffee -- hot, black, and stout enough to stick a knife in, regardless of the season -- instead of lemonade).

Unlike 1LT(P) L S, I don't conflate prostitution with rape -- one is a means of earning money (albeit with arguable degrees of choice, coercion, and desperation), the other is an innately despicable act.

I offer the same advice to 1LT(P) L S that I offer to anybody interested in taking up the profession of arms: develop a robust sense of humor. This is a business filled with undeserved tragedies befalling people, whether it be death, the loss of limbs, the loss of loved ones, or other great losses. As any competent psychologist will affirm, humor is a time-proven mechanism for coping with the emotions entailed in those losses. As some wag once put it, war is too tragic to always be taken seriously.
(2)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
CW4 Pam Collins
12
12
0
Wow, good question. I think displaying the Confederate flag anywhere but a museum is inappropriate because it stands for racism in many people's eyes; however, if you are going to remove the name of Confederate officers from military installations, you should remove the union officers names, too. Otherwise, we are saying only the winners get the keep their names on anything. It's part of our history. If we follow this logic, there are a number of places and monuments that would be stripped or removed completely. Soon we will be erasing part of the history that made this country what it is and we will forget. And you know what they say about those that forget history. They are bound to repeat it.
(12)
Comment
(0)
1SG Military Police
1SG (Join to see)
9 y
1LT William Clardy I can relate, my wife was originally from CA...needless to say we're outcasts amongst her liberal family lol.
(0)
Reply
(0)
CW4 Pam Collins
CW4 Pam Collins
9 y
And the lone star flag….
MGySgt Douglas C. -
(0)
Reply
(0)
MGySgt Douglas C.
MGySgt Douglas C.
9 y
CW4 Pam Collins - Thank you Ma'am, I forgot about the Republic of Texas.
(0)
Reply
(0)
1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
9 y
MGySgt Douglas C., I count moral high ground as a first-world problem when fighting wars, especially when in an existential conflict facing an enemy who cares not one whit about what you define as moral high ground.

Functionally, hate is a double-edged sword. If someone threatens the continued existence of me and mine, gut-level hate may be just the extra edge I need to succeed against them. Or it might cause a clouding of my judgment which could lead to a fatal error. Either way, it's something which should be evaluated (and managed, if need be) based on its potential impact on the situation at hand when survival is at stake -- which, both despite and because of all our romantic pretensions about honor and morality, is the state where we should expect things to be whenever we get ordered to venture forth to kill or die.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SPC Ryan D.
11
11
0
Confederacy aside, can we talk about the awesome beards these guys had?!
(11)
Comment
(0)
SSG Roger Ayscue
SSG Roger Ayscue
9 y
Wow someone needs to go down to Walmart and get a Sense of Humor.
(0)
Reply
(0)
1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
9 y
SSG Roger Ayscue, you're wrong, just totally wrong.

Everybody knows that Sikhs must be sub-standard soldiers because they have beards and will die on you if you ever get to do your thing in a cloud of Sarin.
(0)
Reply
(0)
SSG Roger Ayscue
SSG Roger Ayscue
9 y
I was just making a point that everyone should be able to have a beard if anyone can, and can you believe it? Some one was offended at my humor. WOW
(1)
Reply
(0)
1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
9 y
SSG Roger Ayscue, I think you need to replace that inoperative sarcasm detector. You didn't get it at Walmart, did you?
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
Cpl Mark McMiller
10
10
0
Not no, but hell no. Most, if not all, of them were graduates of U.S. military academies and U.S. service members prior to the civil war. At the time, the U.S. was The United States Are America, not The United States of America; in other words, membership in the United States was supposed to be voluntary, not mandatory. In their minds, and rightfully so, The United States was not their country; the state in which they lived was their country, much like the European Union, and they were honorably fighting to defend their country's rights.
(10)
Comment
(0)
1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
9 y
Excellent analogy to the EU, Cpl Mark McMiller.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Capt Richard I P.
Capt Richard I P.
9 y
Rights to do what, exactly?
(1)
Reply
(0)
Cpl Mark McMiller
Cpl Mark McMiller
9 y
Capt Richard I P. - A Google search will bring up many links that will explain it better than I ever could. The summarized version is that the South believed they had the right to rule themselves and were fed up with the North lording it over them.
I think those that believe it was solely about the right to own slaves are wrong, as most Southern people were not slave owners. And if the North really didn't want slavery, the Northern slave states could have passed legislation in their own states to to abolish it; they didn't. Lincoln's had to issue the Emancipation Proclamation under the War Powers Act because he couldn't get Congress to abolish slavery. And because the Emancipation Proclamation was issued under the War Powers Act, Lincoln was only able to free slaves in those states that were in rebellion; the proclamation did not even give citizenship to freed slaves.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM
9
9
0
A few thoughts/comments/questions to "should US military bases named after Confederate be renamed?
- Should George Washington not be honored as the "father of our nation" because he was a slave owner?
- Should our founding fathers be condemned because they made the political decision to categorize blacks as 3/5ths of a person within our Constitution?
- Should our school children read more current literary authors because they are multi cultural at the expense of classical authors because they are predominantly white males?
- Any nation or culture must know three things in order to survive and thrive. I think these three things are: where they came from, where they are at, and where they are going. I think the answers to the original question and my questions are obvious. We should not cover up who we are or where we came from as a culture or a nation. The risk if we do is that we will not know who we are and where we are going.
(9)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
1LT William Clardy
9
9
0
Edited 9 y ago
To those who think that these generals betrayed their oaths, I would point out that up until 1862, Army officers swore the following oath:
-----------------------------
I, _____, appointed a _____ in the Army of the United States, do solemnly swear, or affirm, that I will bear true allegiance to the United States of America, and that I will serve them honestly and faithfully against all their enemies or opposers whatsoever, and observe and obey the orders of the President of the United States, and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the rules and articles for the government of the Armies of the United States.
-----------------------------

A key nuance is that the United States of America is a plural term ("them") instead of a singular union. Back in those days, the emphasis was on United *States* -- many states united rather than a single nation-state, nor any allegiance required to the Constitution of the United States.

It would be wrong to understate the importance of this direction of allegiance towards the state. Just prior to the Civil War, John Brown was convicted of treason against the Commonwealth of Virginia after U.S. Marines under the command of then-Brevet Colonel Robert E. Lee defeated his raid on Harper's Ferry.

It is also worth noting that the question of whether or not States have a right to withdraw from the United States has never been settled in a court of law, so the question of where an Army officer's loyalty should have gone when his State was no longer one of the United States is technically quite debatable.
(9)
Comment
(0)
Cpl Mark McMiller
Cpl Mark McMiller
9 y
Capt Richard I P. - No; they did not betray their oath. They resigned from the Union Army prior to accepting commissions in the Confederacy; as soon as they resigned, their oath was null and void.
(0)
Reply
(0)
1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
9 y
Cpl Mark McMiller, Capt Richard I P. isn't expressing concern over whether or not the Confederate officers betrayed their oaths -- he is well aware of the different oath *and* the different context vis a vis then and now.

He is still sticking to his (quite cogent) argument that, regardless of how honorable or great they were, at one point they were fighting against the United States, so why should the United States Army honor them? To put it another way, would you expect our erstwhile Canadian allies to name anything after "Old Fuss and Feathers" Scott?
(1)
Reply
(0)
Cpl Mark McMiller
Cpl Mark McMiller
9 y
1LT William Clardy - LOL, I don't know what happened. I was replying to someone's post who said the Confederate service members betrayed their oath, but when I saved my comment, it ended up here and I couldn't find the original post so I tried to delete mine because I didn't think it made any sense taken out of context.

But, nevertheless, I think your analogy fails for the following reason: The U.S. is not part of Canada so U.S. citizens are not entitled to have anything in Canada named after U.S. service members. But the southern states are a part of the U.S., so southern U.S. citizens are as entitled to have U.S. property named after their state war heroes as any other U.S. citizen is regardless of whether some citizens are offended by that.
(0)
Reply
(0)
1LT William Clardy
1LT William Clardy
9 y
Call me a curmudgeon, Cpl Mark McMiller, but in my book nobody is entitled to have anything named after their favorite hero (or heroes).
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SFC Michael Jackson, MBA
9
9
0
No, I didn't know they were named after confederates to begin with except Fort Lee with is obvious.
(9)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close