Should We Be Surprised By Male Sailor Misconduct Towards Female Submarine Officers?

1/ This does not surprise me at all. Military is comprised of many young personnel, who are sexually prime. Many of them will do stupid things. I do not condone the behavior but I am not surprised.
3/ We have to remind our Sailors not to objectify a person. Unless he or she gives permission to share his/her personal photos, we cannot share their photos. Our Sailors must have respect for other personal lives. Everyone is responsible to fix this problem, which is another form of sexual violation and hazing.

Bob J.Mc Farland LT DC USNR (Ret'd)

We should not be surprised by any healthy young male's actions towards women on board Navy ships. In the first place, the Navy made the biggest mistake of their entire history by allowing women to serve on ships with young, healthy men, whose testosterone levels are the highest they will be in their entire lives. It is only normal for healthy, young males to want to physically mate up with young healthy women. It happens everywhere that men and women live and work closely together. If you want to remove this problem aboard U. S. Navy ships, leave the women on shore. At least the men on shore have a much larger choice and aren't forced physically and emotionally to take advantage of the women, like the troublesome conditions on board ship.

Enough said on that subject.


Bob J. Mc Farland LT DC USNR (Ret'd)

Unfortunately, we probably are surprised because we expected better. This has been a. Loses community and the transition will not go along without some major issues. It will not be a sterile environment such as the corporate world where such issues are dealt with very quickly, some of which will be that in the corporate world they can just tap into the pipeline for another actor to do the job that understands the behavior expectations. Submarine service is a highly skilled and demanding training/performance environment, where there are not an endless supply of bright, young MBA clones.

Not making any excuses, and the expectations are clearly set. The punishment ant behavior must be made meaningful and consistently applied, no exceptions.

I must beg your indulgence, for a while I have seen the postings for rally point. Though I served with US forces, I am not an American. When I joined the group I requested that if I am allowed to join that my true rank be shown, not the equivalent.

I served 22 years in a trade that was men only for my first 5 years. Isolated and semi isolated postings were the norm. Part way through a 6 moth isolated tour the station of 200 men was altered with the addition of 20 Female service members, a few years later the trade was opened to female recruiting.

I have seen good as well as bad action on the parts of both genders. For this action to be ongoing as it appeared to be then there are two issues. One, individuals acting in an unacceptable way. People who should know better yet started and continued to violate rules as well as military regulations. The second is an issue with leadership. Isolated places have very few secrets, if not fully aware, senior leaders had an idea that something was ongoing. By failing to supervise, guide and step in, what may have been a couple individuals being disciplined has resulted in yet another incident where many suffer. Pride, respect, duty. Earned, and given. We have a duty to instill this in every person in our organization, period, full stop

Why is that a problem sounds to me men don't want to be ordered around by a female that's pretty sad when we been doing it for year other way around.

I find it hilarious for various reasons. A submarine is not neatly compartmented like in the movies. There are two "shitters" onboard that are out in the open. No door. No cover. Why? Cuz - the sub was built for men. So were I to be using that toilet and a female sailor happen to walk by, then she'd technically/legally be accused of harrasment/voyeurism, etc.

In an ideal world, female and male sailors on board subs will all have their own room, door, head, etc. Too bad it doesn't work that way in real life. By the way, you do know that on most boats, the doors come off the hinges for sound silencing reasons? So on most boats, shower/bathroom doors are replaced by shower curtains. When a wife would come on board, you'd stand outside the curtain while your wife used the facilities.

Theres a lot of spontaneous nudity on board subs. Some of the beds have guages that need to be read near/in them. If you're in bed when I pull back the curtain to read it, I hope you have your jammies on... Pipes flow near/through berthing. Lower level berthing has a huge "pantry" in the floor. What if the cooks - male - need to get into that pantry while the girl sailors are sleeping in that chunk of berthing? Too bad. Get your t-shirt and shorts on and learn not to sleep in the nude (yes - we had multiple complainants bitching about their privacy back in my day).

You'll stand in line to shower wearing only your towel. Try to do it another/different way. Try showering fully dressed because you've been pre-scared/listened to an urban legend. Can't be done. Someones' gonna see skin. "But it shouldn't be done..." Yeah yeah...yada yada. Its called cell phones. Don't want 'em? Ban 'em. Don't like my daughter at school getting upskirted either. But what can you do other than ban phones? Sorry government - no easy/rational answer.

Welcome to submarine life ladies.

Surprised? No. Disappointed? Yes. The first time I saw a woman about a ship was 1993 - USS Ogden (LPD-5). 10-female Midshipmen joined us as we left Pearl Harbor. CoT (Green-side Commander) issued a standing order to "stay clear of the women." Besides, Marines had no direct business with the Mids anyway. Unfortunately, this directive didn't curb the unprofessional interest(s) of some 18-yr old knuckleheads. Fortunately, nothing serious happened. However, by the time we hit our first port o' call, we took on some newbies --replacements for those who didn't embrace (or understand) the directives.

Of course this doesn't surprise me. Disappoint, yes. Surprise, no. The only part that surprised me is LT Hochmuth's comments as a defense attorney -- I wonder if he would also argue that shooting a 6'4" sailor with a .22 short shouldn't count as attempted murder because it only made a tiny hole in him and he was able to walk to the ER?

I doubt that the Wyoming is unique in hosting pockets of these sailors' value set. Immaturity and lack of respect is unfortunately in ample supply.

My own knee-jerk notion of the correct action in this case would be for every sailor who shared one of these videos to lose at lease one pay grade at mast. For recipients who didn't share but also didn't report it, well, let's just say that the Wyoming should have decks clean enough to eat off for a while.