Posted on Mar 12, 2015
Should We Be Surprised By Male Sailor Misconduct Towards Female Submarine Officers?
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According to Navy prosecutors, a group of male submarine Sailors aboard the USS Wyoming traded illicit videos of female Officers in various stages of undress "as if they were Pokemon cards."
1.) Does this news really shock or surprise any of you? Why or why not?
2.) Is this a problem unique to this one boat, or does it represent a broader
problem across the Silent Service?
3.) What actions can be taken to prevent future occurrences of conduct such as
this? Who's responsibility is it to fix this?
Just as I did last week with my discussion with the Air Force, I am posting this discussion not to air the Navy's dirty laundry or to point a finger and laugh, but to learn from those of you who are closer to this situation what the reality is and what lessons you are learning that may be beneficial for the Army. I will not tolerate disrespect on this thread, and it is not my intent to see it sink (no pun intended) into a battle of mud-slinging, service-bashing, name-calling, or meme warfare! We are all professionals, comport yourselves accordingly.
Just a little bit about my background, I am a Military Police Officer, one of the few Army Branches that has integrated both genders and places them both equally into positions in which they can be expected to lead Soldiers into direct combat. I have served my entire career alongside women, including combat in Iraq. In my current assignment, I am trained in the Army's Sexual Harassment/Assault Response Prevention program, serving as my Unit's Victim's Advocate. Therefore, this story holds a professional interest for me.
Thank you!
1.) Does this news really shock or surprise any of you? Why or why not?
2.) Is this a problem unique to this one boat, or does it represent a broader
problem across the Silent Service?
3.) What actions can be taken to prevent future occurrences of conduct such as
this? Who's responsibility is it to fix this?
Just as I did last week with my discussion with the Air Force, I am posting this discussion not to air the Navy's dirty laundry or to point a finger and laugh, but to learn from those of you who are closer to this situation what the reality is and what lessons you are learning that may be beneficial for the Army. I will not tolerate disrespect on this thread, and it is not my intent to see it sink (no pun intended) into a battle of mud-slinging, service-bashing, name-calling, or meme warfare! We are all professionals, comport yourselves accordingly.
Just a little bit about my background, I am a Military Police Officer, one of the few Army Branches that has integrated both genders and places them both equally into positions in which they can be expected to lead Soldiers into direct combat. I have served my entire career alongside women, including combat in Iraq. In my current assignment, I am trained in the Army's Sexual Harassment/Assault Response Prevention program, serving as my Unit's Victim's Advocate. Therefore, this story holds a professional interest for me.
Thank you!
Navy
Sexual Harassment
Sexual Assault
SHARP
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 38
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Yes, I am very surprised. Totally unacceptable behavior. As a matter of fact, if I were on that ship, I would be horrified that someone took advantage of my shipmate/fellow officer in that manner. As for the alleged perpetrators, I believe in justice, especially for the richly deserving. I had one similar type incident when I was in command and it was dealt with professionally and harshly. Completely outside of the norm and any definition/understanding of acceptable behavior.
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this is what our Liberal leaders do, they set a lofty goal that everyone can agree with, i.e. Equality, then they come up with the DUMBEST policies to get there. and how can you disagree with a policy like This one? are you against "Equality"? see how that works?
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As a sub vet from the '80's, my first question is WTF are they doing with a camera on a submarine. Virtually everything around you is classified at least confidential except maybe your bunk and the galley stove. Am i surprised that the boys were peeping on the girls? not particularly. Should the boy's been taking video/pictures of the girls? read the first line of my comment again. If they are willing and able to use camera's to video shipmates (male or female) WTF else might they be taking video's of and showing to whom?
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I have been on the retired list for 21 years now, but my wife is a Commander in the Navy Reserve. So, I have remained up to date with the Navy and subsequent changes affecting the service. I am a former police officer and was a trained Sexual Assault Victim Advocate. There should be no difference in expected conduct by sailors and officers. We knew back in the 1980s that we would no longer be able to man our shipsin the future with all male crews. A sailor is a sailor and is subject to the UCMJ. Sexual Harassment training has been mandatory since Tail-Hook. Zero Tolerance is the only acceptable response to such conduct. 45 years ago if an enlisted sailor had obtained photographs of an officer that sailor would have been prosecuted to the full extent of the UCMJ at a Courts Martial. There would have been brig time.It's all about respect, discipline, and command involvement. Too often Commanding Officers and senior enlisted leaders careers have been destroyed by inappropriate relationships. Leaders from E-4 to 0-10 know the rules and it is their duty to ensure that everyone is treated with dignity.
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Yes, I was shocked that the crewmen betrayed a shipmate... those women were trusted to command the operations of their boat while the CO slept, but treated as objects by people who they would have faced fire and flooding with. Disgusting! My crew at least had the class to never let me know if they disrespected me that much.
Near as I can tell it was isolated to the one crew, in that one division... really it was a bad bunch that forgot these women earned the same fish they did, and were worthy of respect for that if nothing else.
Most boats removed the access and conducted "really people?" training. Does this fix the problem? Not in all cases, but it at least puts those on the boarder on notice. Disrespect your peers or officers in such way and get discharged/go to military prison.
Near as I can tell it was isolated to the one crew, in that one division... really it was a bad bunch that forgot these women earned the same fish they did, and were worthy of respect for that if nothing else.
Most boats removed the access and conducted "really people?" training. Does this fix the problem? Not in all cases, but it at least puts those on the boarder on notice. Disrespect your peers or officers in such way and get discharged/go to military prison.
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Yes, I was shocked that the crewmen betrayed a shipmate... those women were trusted to command the operations of their boat while the CO slept, but treated as objects by people who they would have faced fire and flooding with. Disgusting! My crew at least had the class to never let me know if they disrespected me that much.
Near as I can tell it was isolated to the one crew, in that one division... really it was a bad bunch that forgot these women earned the same fish they did, and were worthy of respect for that if nothing else.
Most boats removed the access and conducted "really people?" training. Does this fix the problem? Not in all cases, but it at least puts those on the boarder on notice. Disrespect your peers or officers in such way and get discharged/go to military prison.
Near as I can tell it was isolated to the one crew, in that one division... really it was a bad bunch that forgot these women earned the same fish they did, and were worthy of respect for that if nothing else.
Most boats removed the access and conducted "really people?" training. Does this fix the problem? Not in all cases, but it at least puts those on the boarder on notice. Disrespect your peers or officers in such way and get discharged/go to military prison.
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If sailors are hiding cameras to take pictures of female officers in undress, where else are they hiding cameras? And to whom are they giving/selling the images? This is not only a sexual assault problem, but it's a severe security problem as well.
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Embarrassing for the Navy but I am not surprised, you have young personnel who lack judgement "obviously" in a very confined and time extended space. There were bound to be problems, especially at the beginning of the integration programs for all co-ed restructuring I think. When I was in females were only allowed to serve on Tenders, glad as hell I never had too, not saying they can't do the job, but this is still "NEW NAVY" as I see it. Living conditions on board CG'S, DDG'S,all ships for that matter are tight make, it's a blueprint for trouble.
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I Guess this is a prime example of why there was so much resistance to Putting Females on Ships of the Line... I spent a few weeks on one of these things and there was no females on board and there was no problems... other than being soldiers on a Navy Boat...
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PO1 Cliff Heath
Exactly shipboard life can be tough enough without the new restrictions placed on crew members by women billing assigned Combat Ships, it can cause resentment when you can get your ass in a sling just talking like a sailor, that's why males did not really want to serve on the Tenders.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
One of our guys was dating one of the girls on the tender. Turns out she wasn't a girl. She was a lesbian and was dating a guy to get her "man" jealous. It worked. Her "man" was the crane operator and was loading pallets onto our sub. Her "man" happened to notice our crewman who was dating "his" girl and she dropped a pallet close enough that had he not moved, he'd have lost his life/arm/leg. "Ooops." Blamed it on something that in the surface Navy always happened, but the sub commander wasn't buying it. After that, we were banned from dating/cavorting/socializing with tender girls.
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The problem; beginning early as Kindergarten and reinforced in the home, is we often DO NOT teach the values and standards of behavior with respect to dignity, honor, prestige, and reputation. Many of those virtues are learned the hard way and reinforced through the uncomfortable process of consequences. We all know the variety of ways consequences can be manifested…at least I knew them, but I’m not sure consequences are part of today’s educational process. I’m not in favor of women integrated into ALL military billets, but since that is the direction we are moving, I personally would not tolerate this disrespectful behavior regardless of gender.
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