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I have seen many SPC's promoted to SGT without any WLC and they seem vastly under prepared for leadership. Do you think that WLC should be attended before a SPC is eligible to make SGT?
Posted in these groups: 
Promotions
Army
Promotions Army
Edited 12 y ago
Posted 12 y ago
Responses: 24
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As a soldier who went to WLC as a SGT, I say yes!
I also say get rid of SP4, and replace it with CPL.
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CPT (Join to see)
I remember that when I was in AIT for reclass, there was talk that Big Army was going to bring back the SPC paygrade from E-4 to E-8.
I think this may have some weight to it. Not in as much that it is being considered by Big Army, but that it could be a useful tool. Those that wish to further their careers in leadership could pursue the NCO channel, where those who are very technically capable but not strong leaders could still promote within the Specialist paygrades. This would not be as prevelant or even feasible within some branches, such as Infantry. However, this could be immensely valuable in more technical branches such as Signal, Engineer, AG, etc. This would almost parallel WO ranks in a manner with a more MOS-specific focus.
I am not saying it is a perfect idea, but I can see some value to it. Conversely speaking, the Army did away with SPC paygrades for a reason. Maybe there is some wisdom to that.
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SSG (Join to see)
The vast majority of my WLC class was SGT. For some units, especially on the guard and reserve side, it can be difficult to get funding to send people to leadership schools. If the E-4 is eligible for promotion then why wait until the unit can afford to send them to school before promoting them. It's always going to be at commander's discretion anyways.
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MSG Martin C.
SSG Owen it's not hard to get WLC seats there is courses all over the US to include National Guard and reserve centers. When I was working as a PSG I had a Soldier so driven and determined to make points that he attended the course at Steward because the one at Bragg was booked 6 months out. Here in the DC area we have FT Drum, FT Bragg and the National Guard training center in Pensilvania and yes it sucks to drive the TMP for 4-6 hrs but that's our duty to get those Soldiers to school. As far as CPL rank should only be given to those that already are school trained but points are out of reach
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SSG (Join to see)
I definitely Agree with SFC Cardenas. I went to one at Fort Indiantown Gap PA, just because I was so sick of not getting a slot....
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Based on my experience with WLC, I don't think so. I don't know what it was like for others but I learned nothing exceptional from WLC. It was a good experience but I already knew most of the curriculum.
I should add however that I went when it was only two weeks so maybe that's why.
I should add however that I went when it was only two weeks so maybe that's why.
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SSG Philip Cotton
SGT Woods,
I hear you there. I've heard the same thing. I know it has been changed to a roughly 1 month course now. Time will tell if the course makes any difference in producing better qualified SGT's.
I hear you there. I've heard the same thing. I know it has been changed to a roughly 1 month course now. Time will tell if the course makes any difference in producing better qualified SGT's.
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CPT (Join to see)
I think that SGT Woods' comment demonstrates something here. It shows that those who are developed properly should not find anything new at WLC, but others who are not developed should be able to find value in WLC to help them garner at least some of the development that they were missing.
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
That's true sir, good point. That's why I don't think WLC shouldnt be required for promotion; it's best left up to the leadership to decide if their Soldier is qualified to be an NCO.
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SFC Steven Borders
I am getting ready to go report to WLC. So I will let you all know how it is for me when I get back.
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SSG Philip Cotton
SGT Woods, that is very true. I have had to do alot of paperwork to waive a Soldier's time in grade to go to WLC due to a lack of funding at the state level or most recently, a 12 month long deployment that put the Soldier over the time limit.
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
Yeah, I was promoted first to SGT before attending WLC because I was deployed.
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SSG Philip Cotton
SSG Owen,
It totally should. A 9 month deployment as a SGT should totally outweigh any formal WLC training.
It totally should. A 9 month deployment as a SGT should totally outweigh any formal WLC training.
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Well IMO SPC Cotton, Leaders aren't born at WLC, so no. A true Leader is just that and WLC won't make or break that.
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SSG Felix Najera
Totally agree with you...seen alot of people go through the NCOES system and still lack leadership and technical competence.
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The down and dirty is that our current standard on NCOES allows a Soldier to get promoted and not attend NCOES until it is too late. Let's go back to the old times and reset the standard that you must attend NCOES before being promoted. It worked then and I am sure you wouldn't have SGTs or SSGs walking around not wanting to go to NCOES and still wearing the rank.
Because the Army and we as Leaders have let this continue we have a serious backlog of promoted NCOs that have to go to NCOES. I open up my Battalion OML list and the WLC tab has tons of SGTs, ALC has tons of SSGs and SLC has a few SFCs.
If we made WLC a requirement before you made SGT, ALC before SSG and SLC before SFC I am sure the schools would teach you more because you were getting the training before you got promoted.
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I would like to see all SPC's get a chance to attend WLC prior to even being considered for SGT. This would permit many SPC's to get training which would help their channel evaluate them for promotion or further development. It would also help create a better base of knowledge going into promotion to E-5. We can all think of times where E-4's have been forced to step up to act in the same manner as a NCO. This training would help them succeed versus fail. My personal policy is that I will send every NQ SGT first, but I want every SPC that I can to be enrolled in WLC. Some will self-eliminate by not even taking care of SSD-1.
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CPT (Join to see)
I learned from my lumps as a SPC. A little more guidance or training would have went a long way to pinning on my stripes. Instead, it was trial by fire without much NCO support. I am thankful for a few who sat on the fringes and bumped me in the right direction more than a few times. There is something to be said for being stuck in a SL role as a SPC because there are not enough NCO's to go around.
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I believe they should go back to the way it was, WLC before promotion. 30 day course, locked down. makes you pay more attention to what you are doing vs watching the clock waiting for final formation. And as was said in another comment, you may know everything they have to offer, but if you don't it is a great place to learn. I know SGTs who have been E5's for 3-4 years and never attended WLC who think that they are the is all end all of the Army. A lot of the time, they were completely the opposite. Ruling through fear and intimidation rather than leadership and knowledge. WLC doesn't have all of the answers, and after graduating, you might still not be the best NCO. But at least you have been taught the standards and given the resources to be better.
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I do think that IOT be promoted to E-5 that soldiers should go through WLC first, however I do no feel like WLC is what sets young soldiers up to be leaders. This preperation comes from their leadership setting them up with everything that they need to be good leaders. Poor leaders tent to breed more poor leaders. This is not always the case but sadly it is more than not. Team leaders should be taking these E-4's under their wings and getting them ready for the next step.
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In my opinion, yes. WLC is the training class that teaches someone how to lead, be a leader. It is a disservise in my opinion to promote to SGT without is. I also believe that ALC, SLC, 1SG course and SMA should be required prior to promotion to these ranks. I am a CSM and going to SMA now. It is difficult to do my job as a CSM while I am learning to be a CSM. Some of the things taught to me at the academy I could have used a year ago when I was promoted, but at the time, didnt have that knowlege in my tool kit. It is just better all around for that leader to have the training prior to having the responsibility. Just my opinion
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