Posted on May 17, 2024
Since Beards are becoming more prevalent, is it time for the Army to authorize beards across the force?
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Social Media, especially Facebook are highlighting US Army NCOs sporting full beards. It is time to allow all soldiers to have a beard or no one to have a beard. This is being used as a DEI issue. It is not. It is an issue of having one standard. I am not questioning leader effectiveness, I am not questioning patriotism, I am not questioning devotion to duty. I am stating that to allow a beard based on religion is a violation of the First Amendment and the 14th Amendment.
A Soldier who is a Nordic Pagan a Muslim or a Sikh is allowed a beard. The choice to follow one of those faiths should not be more important to the Army than the choice to just want a beard. To want a beard because you want one is just as valid a reason to allow a beard as is devotion to a religion that a Soldier chose to adopt. There should be ONE standard. Either everyone can have a beard or no one can have a beard. No exceptions, or it becomes discrimination. If Special Operators kick ass with beards, and they are allowed to grow them when on deployment, then obviously having a beard does not make a Soldier sub-standard. Also, the argument about the Protective Mask is invalid, since no one in CONUS is under a Chemical agent threat, or promasks would be worn in garrison and no one deploys faster than it takes to shave, only people in Korea for example should be used for this excuse not to allow them. If the reason given is appearance in uniform, then I go back to my original statement.
Please do not try to make this a Race or Culture issue. It is not. It is an issue of standards, and one standard for everyone.
A Soldier who is a Nordic Pagan a Muslim or a Sikh is allowed a beard. The choice to follow one of those faiths should not be more important to the Army than the choice to just want a beard. To want a beard because you want one is just as valid a reason to allow a beard as is devotion to a religion that a Soldier chose to adopt. There should be ONE standard. Either everyone can have a beard or no one can have a beard. No exceptions, or it becomes discrimination. If Special Operators kick ass with beards, and they are allowed to grow them when on deployment, then obviously having a beard does not make a Soldier sub-standard. Also, the argument about the Protective Mask is invalid, since no one in CONUS is under a Chemical agent threat, or promasks would be worn in garrison and no one deploys faster than it takes to shave, only people in Korea for example should be used for this excuse not to allow them. If the reason given is appearance in uniform, then I go back to my original statement.
Please do not try to make this a Race or Culture issue. It is not. It is an issue of standards, and one standard for everyone.
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Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 24
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SSG Roger Ayscue
First Sergeant, No unit in CONUS is on RDF status so fast that the members can not shave. The 82d Airborne is wheels up in 18 hours. If a guy can't shave a beard in 18 hours he needs to find a new line of work. If the need for a gas mask was so pressing, the gas mask would be required to be worn or at arms length on CONUS Bases. I can agree in Korea and the mid east.
I still say one standard for all. If one soldier is allowed to do something that another soldier can be disciplined for doing, if a supervisor can discipline a soldier for not following a regulation that the supervisor does not have to follow then it is a double standard and hypocrisy.
I still say one standard for all. If one soldier is allowed to do something that another soldier can be disciplined for doing, if a supervisor can discipline a soldier for not following a regulation that the supervisor does not have to follow then it is a double standard and hypocrisy.
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MSgt Grant Davison
SSG Roger Ayscue - The military is not a democracy. You sign a contract, swear an oath of allegiance and agree to follow the rules. At least it used to be... The rules used to be no beards, and mustaches were to be kept in check. Apparently, the lack luster leadership allows everyone to come up with reasons to sidestep rules and regulations. If you are concerned about double standards and hypocrisy, go back to the old way and only allow those with a shaving waiver to wear a beard. This was never a problem back in the day when rules were rules and leaders enforced them. Used to be, at least in the AF, you didn't dare walk around base with your hands in your pockets, not wearing your hat, looking like a bum for fear that some SNCO was going to magically appear from an alternate dimension and rip you a new one. That doesn't happen anymore. Everyone's afraid of their own shadow.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
1SG James Kelly - In no way am I talking about or have i said anything like "That's not Fair" I said it is a double standard and is not good for the unit or good order and discipline, especially to have a NCO or Officer that is allowed to have a beard that has the authority to discipline a Soldier that is not allowed to have one for forgetting to shave one morning. How do you verbally counsel that? "Hey Soldier, you need to shave because that is in the regs, but I don't have to because I am special?" No 1SG to allow one to have it and not everyone is total and utter bullshit and I say again ONE STANDARD for EVERYONE.
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With the possibility of still having to wear pro-masks for chemical warfare, I doubt they will. I guess the Navy can sometimes wear beards when at sea or on a sub when there is almost no chance of a chemical attack happening, as long as the ship is moving and the sub is under water.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
Sir, the Pro Mask argument hold as much water as a sieve with a hole in it. NO ONE is under threat of gas attack in CONUS and for the most part in USAEUR. Even the 82d AIRBORNE is 2 hour recall, then wheels up in 18 hours. In that amount of time, a person could shave. Just saying. IF the Pro Mask thing were a real thing, and a gas attack were a possibility any place on a regular basis, the pro mask would be a part of the assigned everyday uniform. No, that ain't holdin' water.
My point is One Standard only... Everyone can grow a beard or no one can.
My point is One Standard only... Everyone can grow a beard or no one can.
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CPT David Tanner
SSG Roger Ayscue I am old school and retired so doesn't matter to me personally. There would probably have to be a 1/4 standard like mustaches and beard waivers. Good luck.
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MAJ Ronnie Reams
SSG Roger Ayscue - I've been retired a spell. I think I remember that the up company is in a barracks in the old, old Division area*, with a concertina wire topped tall chain link fence. Right close to green ramp, and it does not take two hours for them to get there. Perhaps 20 minutes to load on duce and halves and ride down the road to green ramp.
*Last that I knew there were 3 division areas, old, old WWII wooden buildings, old cinder block buildings and new brick buildings.
*Last that I knew there were 3 division areas, old, old WWII wooden buildings, old cinder block buildings and new brick buildings.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
Then are you saying that no one should have a beard? Because I can get behind that and I can tell a Sikh to get a haircut and a Nordic pagan or a Muslim to go shave. Got no problem with any of that. I just want to be clear that I want one standard for all.
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SGT (Join to see)
SSG Roger Ayscue - How does a mask get a good seal if your face is hairy and I can guarantee you they wont have time to shave it off if they need to put it on. Just my 2 cents
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SSG Roger Ayscue
This conversation needs to happen. Beards cannot be an accommodation. Just suppose Private Smith or Seaman Jones is running late and forgets to shave before first formation, Seaman Jones is written up for disciplinary action by Petty Officer Mustafa who has a full beard. Jones is referred to Captains Mast by his petty officer because Jones a white Presbyterian does not have a shaving profile because he is not black and does not have a religious accommodation because he is Christian, but yet the referring NCO is a man that can have a beard because he made a choice to be another faith.
Is this right? Absolutely not. There should be one standard that all personnel go by. So I am putting out there... Beards for everyone or beards for no one.
In the above scenario, Petty Officer Mustafa made a choice to be a Muslim and because of his choice to adopt that faith, he feels that his deity says he should have a beard. Seaman Jones makes a choice to not shave because he does not want to. Mustafa made a choice and so did Jones. Mustafa's choice should not be of more value to the DoD than Jones's choice. No Member's faith system should make them special, and all should be treated equally. There should never be a situation where a man with a beard can write up an man that forgot to shave.
Is this right? Absolutely not. There should be one standard that all personnel go by. So I am putting out there... Beards for everyone or beards for no one.
In the above scenario, Petty Officer Mustafa made a choice to be a Muslim and because of his choice to adopt that faith, he feels that his deity says he should have a beard. Seaman Jones makes a choice to not shave because he does not want to. Mustafa made a choice and so did Jones. Mustafa's choice should not be of more value to the DoD than Jones's choice. No Member's faith system should make them special, and all should be treated equally. There should never be a situation where a man with a beard can write up an man that forgot to shave.
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