Posted on Mar 30, 2014
Cpl David Hall
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So every veteran has heard " thanks for your service" but they also hear we just cant hire you because your over/under qualified, or they hear you have not paid your dues so heres a mop to start your way up, believe it or not I heard this from a Union here in Texas that my military schools did not count, to me this is unsatisfactory and needs to be addressed at a local and national level any one got any ideas?
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SPC Christopher Smith
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I personally believe people need to remember that much of what they have learned and done in the Military does not carry directly over to the civilian sector. Many of the certificates and schools we get are not accredited and cannot be used for job placement no matter how much the hiring manager might want to help you out. We also need to understand that your experience means nothing to an employer, they have a position open and you fill it, as far as paying your dues that is what you have to do in some organizations. Take the opportunity to learn and show your dedication. 

As far as fixing this, we need to have more schools and certifications that are accredited so that we are more marketable in the civilian job force.
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CPT All Source Intelligence
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It's complicated.  The military *is* a job, not a job training program.  I have never heard of a private sector company taking criticism for not training their employees to be able to take other jobs.  That said, in some areas, like Signal, there are tons of civilian certifications that we should be putting our Soldiers through, not only because it will help them be marketable after the military.  In other areas, the military demands of the job are so different from the civilian application that it would make no sense for us to train Soldiers in that way.  I get that it means our training won't help them get jobs outside the military, but they already have a job for which that training is applicable.  If you want to train for a civilian career while in the service, that option is already available, but you will have to invest your own time.  That is NOT true in the civilian world for the most part.  Why should the military prepare you for a different job for free, during duty hours and using tax dollars to pay for this training, all while writing you a paycheck?  It just an unreasonable expectation.
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SPC Christopher Smith
SPC Christopher Smith
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CPT Wolfer,
I apologize for just running into your response now, I will attempt to give an example of how and why we should be training certain positions with accredited certifications.

Although you are correct that the military is not a "job training program", but what good does it to the country to pay taxes for SM's to do a job and not be able to work after they end their term or career? A few extra dollars spent on accredited certs now, could reduce tax dollars spent on the back end with SM's not jumping on social well fare programs because they are unable to find work.

I will pop your bubble with the idea that the military shouldn't pay for training for the time you get out. Ever hear of a thing called TA? The money and budget for that doesn't come from thin air, and many times the classes the SM's take serve no benefit to the military AT ALL.

I offer this idea, we expand TA not only to college courses but to technical courses for certifications which may or may not help SM's in their current posiitons (wihout having to dip into their GI Bill). I personally don't know too many companies that won't pay back a person who gets training that benefits the company. I know most won't pay if you fail, or have subpar grades/results. It pays to spend a little extra now, to save on the back end, help transitioning vets, and overall help boost the economy by reducing the number of people on social welfare programs.
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CPO Jim Summers
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Here's a suggestion, when you retire or separate from the Military, leave your uniform in the closet.  Thank You for your service, but I interviewed a Retired E-8 just a couple weeks ago.  His "you owe me" attitude was a real turn off.  He back peddled once I he learned I was Retired Navy.  Thanks for your service, but don't expect to get a special position because of it.  Face it, your starting over and "Yes, there are things you don't know"....  Just 2 cents...
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PO1 Kevin Taylor
PO1 Kevin Taylor
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Completely agree!
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SGM Sgm In Transition To Civilian Life
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SIR, you are right on the money. I've heard this same thing from a couple of my good friends who have recently transitioned and I take it to heart since I too will begin my transition soon. When you start a new career expect to start at the bottom and you will be better prepared to start job hunting.

 

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Sgt Joel "Mike" Dunlap
Sgt Joel "Mike" Dunlap
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AGREE!! I have hired many prior service. I have looked at a resume and decided from there.. I like vets working with me but leave the past in the past and lets build a future. 
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MSgt Program Analyst   Joint Certification Program
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Here's a little something I read one time that all the civilian companies should read and heed:


Hiring MBAs? You Should Be Looking at NCOs

 

This article is by Col. David Sutherland (Ret.), who commanded a combat brigade in Iraq, has served as special assistant to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff,

and is co-founder and chairman of Dixon Center for Military and Veterans Community Services, an enterprise of Easter Seals .


When I speak to corporate leaders I explain that the difference between a master sergeant and an MBA is that the master sergeant has been doing it for 20 years.

Companies that hire MBAs planned to take on an average of 14.6 of them in 2013, up from 11.4 in 2012, according to a Graduate Management Admission Council survey of

corporate recruiters. But why do consulting firms, financial service corporations, and energy giants look to hire more than 100,000 newly-minted MBAs when more than

1,000 soldiers leave the military every day and bring as good, if not better, skills to the table?

The GMAC survey said that U.S.-based companies planning to hire MBAs are focused on both growth and efficiency.  But you won’t find anyone more qualified and with more experience than a non-commissioned officer. These are senior enlisted personnel, truly the backbone of the U.S. military, including master sergeants and chief petty

officers, and they typically have a minimum of eight years of experience under their belt. NCOs know how to problem-solve, under deadlines and often in the throes of

crises. They have managed large teams of varying ages and skills while ensuring that multi-million dollar equipment stays in fighting order.


Here’s what NCOs bring to a business through hard-fought experience:


• As an extension of senior leaders, they ensure that the job gets done. An NCO ensures that the officer’s commands are carried out correctly.  My brigade command

sergeant major in Iraq, Don Felt, expanded my decision-making ability and command in the field.  He got the job done before he was ever told to do so.

• They are a vital link between top leadership and the factory floor. Regardless of the commander’s physical location, the NCO makes sure work is done to the standards

prescribed and that resources are available. A master sergeant holds responsibility for thousands of people and serves as an essential mentor. How many recently

graduated MBAs can say as much?

• They ensure a solutions-driven approach. The NCO serves as a senior adviser to the commander, determining the causes of the obstacles between the present problem and

the desired outcome. The NCO then comes up with the solution to achieve the desired result. I have witnessed NCOs in Iraq and Afghanistan, including the sergeant for

whom my nonprofit is named, uncovering intelligence and taking action to protect the force. Often this means putting themselves at risk, saving another’s life while

giving their own. What other employee in the world guarantees their job with their life? And what CEO wouldn’t prize a manager with such critical thinking and loyalty?

• They provide feedback that translates into opportunities. The dreaded annual performance review in the private sector is an everyday responsibility for an NCO, who

is responsible for developing subordinates to take his or her place on the battlefield. NCOs are the ones who develop the bench of future on-the-ground leaders.

• They are motivated by incentives beyond money and instill the same motivation in others. In both the private sector and in the Army, gone are the days of bonuses or

performance-based compensation. What, then, motivates a person to show up for work? In the military, it’s a commitment to the team and a loyalty that has been

ingrained in the organization by the NCO. Regardless of the means, the NCO knows how to boost morale beyond monetary compensation.

 The Army NCO creed begins with the line, “No one is more professional than I.” It’s not just talk. It’s living. To all hiring managers considering an MBA, I ask that

you consider an NCO. Don’t fall into the trap of tossing aside a résumé because the service member lacks the pedigree of an MBA. There is a powerful case for hiring

NCOs.  And there is no better day to start than today.


Even though this was written by an Army Col. - it's message spans all service branches.  The civilian business community as a whole (especially if there are military vets already in their ranks) needs to read this with an open mind and let the words of wisdom sink in.  Degree's are a necessity for medical or nuclear fields, but  a majority of other career fields 'experience' would be worth it's weight in gold compared to a degree that looses it worth after a few years unless the knowledge is constantly updated.  

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1SG Eric Rice
1SG Eric Rice
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Well written and valuable advice for any corporation. It is something that should be communicated to the corporate world to make them aware of what Senior Leaders in the Armed Forces bring to the table.
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So what can be done to have more veterans Hired in the Civilian workforce?
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You must make yourself stand out, in a good way. Don't simply rely on military schools; go out and get a degree.
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MAJ Physician
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Great advice. If a veteran is at least commensurate with a civilian peer in qualifications and education, then their military experience may take them the extra mile. We shouldn't rely on the latter to substitute for the former.
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CW2 Special Agent
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Agreed in full!
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CPT Company Commander
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The best way to appeal to a perspective employer is to first make no assumptions that your veteran status necessarily qualifies you more than anyone else.  Like any other applicant, it is up to you to sell your experiences in the force, and shape them into something that is specifically well-suited to the position you are interviewing for. First and foremost, be humble about your time in uniform, and detail how it helped develop you personally and professionally.  Do your research ahead of time about the company and job you are applying for, and be prepared to explain in detail what you will bring to the table compared to other candidates.   
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Cpl Bulk Fuel Specialist
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I Captain have to agree with you sir 100% , because this has applied directly to me. Also remember you will get knocked down , it is what you do while you get knocked down is what determines how you get back up. Just remember to get back up
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SPC David Wyckoff
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I think the fastest and most efficient way is to get vets in the business of HR. While I'm not advocating that someone simply hire vets over civilians because they are vets, they can also make sure that the vet gets a fair shake.


As to the schools, military vs civilian, it goes both ways. I mentioned in an earlier thread about transitioning out that this was going to be a problem. I graduated from a votech school as a mechanic. The Army didn't recognize my schooling and sent me to their school anyway. Likewise when I got out, the civilian world didn't recognize the Army schools or even relate my experience. It does need to be addressed, I agree.

Maybe the military could work with the civilian sector to try and standardize the basic curriculum for, say cooks, mechanics and electronics.


The only other way for vets to get hired, is for vets to start businesses and make it a point to hire vets.

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SFC Mark Merino
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I would start with giving USAjobs a common sense enema. 3 months from job offer closing until notification is insane. That is in addition to however long it takes to close the job openings, so it is more like 4-5 months. If you doubt my math, I have about 350 examples I can show you in the last year.
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MSG Brad Sand
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Edited >1 y ago
CPL Hall,

You are right. The sad part is that civilians are so broke they do not realize they are broke. There was a time when the civilian sector was at least aware of the value of veterans, those days are in the past...to a large degree. There are some people and companies that tap into the veteran resource.
Where I have my bigger issue, is with organizations that claim to have a veteran hiring policy who fail to follow their own policy. I see it all the time.
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SSG Shawn Dodd
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What I don't see near enough is the vets knowing what to do when they get out of the service. I think each vet needs another former vet mentor who can provide them with real support to help them on their journey. I would like to see every major company in American set up a mentor program that will align vets with another and help them become successful. Just a thought anyway.
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LCpl Steve Wininger
LCpl Steve Wininger
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I like your idea about major companies having a mentoring program for vets. One could take a company serious when they say they are vet friendly. Too many companies only say they are vet friendly to win a few customers. A program, such as the one you suggest, would show that a company is putting it's money where it's mouth is.
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Cpl Brett Wagner
Cpl Brett Wagner
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Not sure about the other services but Marines have the Marine for Life program they can use for exactly what SSG Dodd is talking about. check it out http://www.marineforlife.org
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Sgt John H.
Sgt John H.
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From my last visit to Edwards AFB, in the medical lab, they used Veterans extensively. They get pre-trained people who have served the country in uniform and bring their vast experience and knowledge back to assist active duty personnel. I am not familiar with the process of hiring these vets but they seem to be getting quality individuals.
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CPO Arthur Garcia
CPO Arthur Garcia
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I was one of those Vet's that had the opportunity to become civilian DOT (USCG) before DHS... I really wanted to explore life outside the military bubble, I did work in the Corrections field working my way to becoming a police officer, however the opportunity arose to move from Seattle and I jumped on it.. I agree with SSG Dodd. There needs to be better mentor-ship, but some civilian's view them as a threat to their career. And some civilian's are ex military and have forgotten how it was. TAP helps but you just have to see if your the correct fit for the GS life.. 
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Sgt Christopher Collins
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I hear ya and I have been unemployed for awhile now. IMO, no veteran should be employed. Some of these companies advertise how military friendly they are but yet, many do not hire veterans as often as they should or just don't. I know of one large chain but I won't mention it here.
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