Posted on Mar 19, 2014

Supposed undeserved promotion for female Soldier

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Last week I hosted a Sisters In Arms event where a PFC came up to me asking where she could find a female mentor since the one she had recently ETS'd. She then went on explaining to me how this NCO slept her way to the top. I wonder how this is possible considering she in fact isn't even serving in the military anymore and last time I checked there is a promotion process. If it was possible to sleep your way to the top then shouldn't we be running the world by now. Of course after a lengthly thought provoking conversation on this subject the PFC was directed to the very qualified and valuable female Non-Commissioned officers in her unit to provide her with the right kind mentorship she was asking for. What are your thoughts?

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Mentorship

Posted 12 y ago

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Responses: 7

CSM Michael J. Uhlig

Posted 12 y ago

SFC Biddle, you want to ask what are my thoughts? DISGUSTED! Disgusted at the entire situation, at the Soldier for using this tactic - that is someone's daughter for Christ sake! And I am disgusted at the supervisor for violating the creed "I will not use my grade or position to attain PLEASURE ......"

I hope you took immediate action to ensure all were aware of the way to handle themselves.

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SFC (Join to see)

Posted 12 y ago

It sounds to me like this junior Soldier had a combination of the rumor mill and some poor advice. I think it is a little ridiculous to think that someone could "sleep their way" to the top with the current promotion system in place. It is good to hear that you paired this PFC up with some good NCOs to help her out though. She needs a good example of what right looks like and someone to mentor her.

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SSG Zachery Mitchell

Edited 12 y ago

Posted 12 y ago

We had a female in my previous unit who was a SGT(P). She had been waiting on points for a long time. Her points for her MOS for SSG Rarely dropped below 720. We got a new 1SG in (she had been promotable for well over a year and a half at this time) and within two months of this 1SG taking over she "maxed" her APFT and shot 40 out of 40 thus allowing her to get promoted.

I had been to a range with this SGT before and it always took her multiple attempts to even qualify with her weapon. She had also never got anything higher than a 225 on her PT test. A lot of NCO's saw the red flags when she pinned SSG and began asking her questions. She openly admitted that she slept with our 1SG in order to get him to pencil whip her APFT and weapons card. I don't know if she was saying it for attention or if she was being honest. I don't know why someone would lie about such a thing though. She PCSed a couple weeks after pinning on SSG so all the talk about it went away pretty quickly and our 1SG only last another three months before he was relieved on some other allegations.

I do know these types of situations are probably few and far between but it does happen. Most female Soldiers I know have to much self respect for themselves and their bodies. They also bust their asses to get to where they are or where they want to go. Sadly though, there are some Soldiers/NCOs out there that use there body or whatever other means necessary to get what they want.

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SPC Steven Thomas

12 y

As a lower enlisted soldier I have seen a lot of things going on. I do not know if it made me guilty for not reporting it or what. When I was stationed at Ft. Riley I had a Platoon leader who always was on my ASS. I did not know why he kept harassing me to the point where I wanted to get out and give up my dream as being a soldier. So one day I went to my 1SG to complain about what he was doing to me. My 1SG took me out of the Motor pool and placed me in the group that was under his control and we were renovating the barracks. From this point on life was getting a lot easier for me and my 1SG had me go to the board to become promotable to SGT. He changed my outlook on Military life and from then on I loved to be in the Army. From this point on my 1SG and I became good friends, BUT even on days off not once did I call him by his First Name I always called him 1SG even the time when he invited me and my wife and kids over to his house for dinner. I always kept my Military Bearing. As you all have said I myself have seen where people get more involved with others and it is not fair to the rest of the soldiers or NCO's.

So I do not know if this made me one of those soldiers you all are talking about but I myself do not think so and this of course is my opinion.

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SGT(P) (Join to see)

12 y

SPC Thomas,

Depending on what exactly was said, it could have just been a good judgement call. It sounds a though you lost motivation and your 1SG was there to mentor you. He probably went out of his way to move you, because he realized that leaving you there was detrimental to your morale. What separates you from the ones this post is about is that you did nothing to try to influence his decision. You were moved and had to do work. Manual labor. Other Soldiers may look at that as a form of punishment. You worked and I'm sure he saw your capabilities. I'm assuming you did not complain. Sometimes Soldiers just need to be moved out of a toxic environment. I think he made the right call.

The only way you would be fall under the undeserved promotion is if you did personal favors for him in exchange for being sent to the board. That is the fine line some leaders have issue defining. It would have also been inappropriate if somehow your points were padded, as SSG Mitchell illustrated.

*Junior enlisted

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SSG Zachery Mitchell

12 y

SPC Thomas,

I don't think you fall into this category at all. I think your 1SG made a good leadership decision to move you out of a bad situation and put you in a better situation. This better situation allowed your full potential to come out. Now your 1SG saw you living up to your full potential and sent you to the board to reward you for your hard work. Nothing wrong. He was mentoring and guiding you along the way it seems. There's a huge difference in mentoring and guiding than the topic at hand here in this discussion.

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SFC (Join to see)

>1 y

This does however prove a good point. You see a guy being mentored and taken under the 1SG wing so to speak and it's perfectly ok but if the same thing was said from a female then the presumption that she was sleeping with him or he had an alternate agenda would be the outcome. Can females actually have a mentorship relationship with their supervisor without the cristism that comes with it?

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SGT(P) (Join to see)

Posted 12 y ago

As much as I hate when someone makes generalities like that, I have had my mind blown. At my first unit, we had a female Soldier come in as an E2. She progressed up to SGT (points were low back then and just attending a board got you promoted) rather quickly. Obviously, its not possible to make it to the top on your back, in the air, or however its done these days, but it can get you somewhere. It was a known fact that she had relations with her supervisors. The mind blowing part came when I walked in on her coaching 2 other young females on how to learn who to sleep with and when. She had no clue how to do her job... and she was also an 88M. She was never in the motorpool. She couldn't even PMCS a vehicle, and when asked to do so would throw a fit.

She was telling these young female Soldiers to start with their squad leader. After that, you move on to pleasing the PLT SGT then ask to go to the board in the middle of the act. If they refuse, threaten go go public with the relationship, especially if he is married. After she was promoted, she tried working on the 1SG who wouldn't budge. She was the sorriest excuse for a Soldier, let alone a NCO. I don't know how often this happens, but it either worked in her case or she thought it did. All I know is that she got waives and progressed quickly, yet didn't have basic military concepts (let alone MOS knowledge) down yet. I really wish she had female leadership. I don't know where she is today or if she is even still in.

I don't like to blame the victim, but I do wonder if some of this manipulation played into the BG Sinclair debacle. As leaders, we need to learn how to avoid putting ourselves in compromising situations. Stuff like that needs to be nipped in the bud. I'll be darned if one of my Soldiers ever tried to hit on me. It will be on paper. Too many leaders allow this to happen and Soldiers are smart these days. They will get ahead in any way they can. So what if they have to resort to pretending you are soul-mates then stabbing you in the back with blackmail. I've seen way too many "protected" Soldiers. If you confront them about something they did wrong, here comes their leader telling you to leave them alone, as they stand there and smile. These leaders are ruining the military's moral fibers by allowing these Soldiers to manipulate and control them.

When all is said and done and the leader is all used up, the Soldier goes on to the next one to get what they want.

As a leader, we should be there for our Soldiers, but just remember, we are not their friends.

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SGT(P) (Join to see)

12 y

You are totally right. Soldiers are sneaky. You also have to be careful if they catch wind of problems in the marriage. I was up Camp Hovey, and I can tell you that Korea is a different animal all together. I couldn't even begin to tell you the things that I and everyone else saw going on there.

I also think this is a reason many female Soldiers think female NCO's are haters. It is easier to see inappropriate behavior from a woman's perspective, as you have seen with your wife. Last I checked, parade pretty is not an authorized position.

I hate to say parade your wife around, but sometimes it may be needed. If the manipulative Soldiers sense a weakness in the armor, they may try to exploit it. If they see a united front, they will be off to the next one, that may not even see it coming. It is sad that we have to watch out for all types of things, then again, no one ever said life was easy, especially being in the military.

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SFC (Join to see)

12 y

I just don't get this. It blows my mind that this is actually happening. I am not surprised that Soldiers try to get away with it; they try to get away with everything, but as leaders, I don't think it would ever go over well if one of my Soldiers tried to hit on me. SGT Mickles, I was your PSG. How do you think the situation would go if someone tried to hit on me? Honest opinion.

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SGT(P) (Join to see)

12 y

I would love to be a fly on the wall for that one. I think you had the right amount of divide from your Soldiers. You are the type I would never expect to sway. I don't get it either. What ever happened to good old "hard work"?

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Cpl (Join to see)

Posted >1 y ago

This kinda stuff DOES happen, although I wouldn't say for promotion... Just kinda helps get there quicker. It also isn't as common an issue as most would believe in my opinion, but because this problem set is out there and known to all, its veracity is distorted.

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SFC (Join to see)

Posted >1 y ago

Favoritism, quid pro quo, the "good ole' boy system" and everything along those lines exist. The issue is proof. Unless one person involved admit to it, or there is some sort of hard evidence, it'll never end.

I have seen a Soldier come up hot twice on a UA for Cocaine and still served.

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MSG Brad Sand

Posted >1 y ago

Yes it is and yes there is. Any system can be worked.

Nice job trying to make people think that women do not already control the World?

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SFC (Join to see)

>1 y

lol, it can be frustrating watching men I work with go fishing and golfing and spending time on a peer level with the boss but if a female was to eat lunch at the defac with a senior ranking person it is scrutinized. I accept that this is the way of the world and there are a lot of factors at play but even in a lot of these comments the women are shamed for being a vixen to an "innocent man just trying to do his job".

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Supposed undeserved promotion for female Soldier

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