Posted on Dec 5, 2016
The battle of the tank busters: Frogfoot versus Warthog. Who would win the battle?
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The A-10 Thunderbolt II is the undisputed king of close-air support.
But what you may not know is that the plane nearly wasn’t picked to handle close-air support – it had to compete with the Northrop A-9. And that plane looks a heck of a lot like the one the Soviets picked to bust American tanks if the Cold War went hot.
So who would win the battle; The Su-25 “Frogfoot” or the A-10?
But what you may not know is that the plane nearly wasn’t picked to handle close-air support – it had to compete with the Northrop A-9. And that plane looks a heck of a lot like the one the Soviets picked to bust American tanks if the Cold War went hot.
So who would win the battle; The Su-25 “Frogfoot” or the A-10?
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Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 13
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Who would win the battle?
The big reason the A-10 won the A-X competition in 1973 was due to the fact that Fairchild had the design pretty well locked down. The plane was merged with the GAU-8 30mm Avenger cannon, given a very powerful bomb load (up to 16,000 pounds of cluster bombs, laser-guided bombs, iron bombs, AGM-65 Maverick missiles, and rockets). The A-10C, which entered service in 2005, added the ability to use Joint Direct Attack Munitions (GPS-guided smart bombs) and the Wind-Corrected Munition Dispensers (cluster bombs with GPS-guidance and a range of over 12 miles). The plane even carries AIM-9 Sidewinders for self-defense (although, Desert Storm proved that the GAU-8 can take down aircraft, too). In short, this is a plane that is designed to kill enemy tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers, and grunts.
The A-10 can not only dish out punishment, it can take it. Like the P-47 Thunderbolt, there are tales of terribly damaged A-10s bringing their pilots home. Perhaps the most famous example was the 2003 incident where Air Force Capt. Kim “Killer Chick” Campbell brought her A-10 home on manual reversion. The A-10 was designed to come home with serious battle damage – and it has.
The Su-25, though, is an interesting beast. The Soviets followed the A-X competition and decided they needed a plane like that of their own.
That said, they picked the loser of the competition to copy. The Su-25 carries about 9,000 pounds of bombs, rockets and missiles, including the AA-8 Aphid. It is a bit faster, hitting Mach .8 as opposed to the A-10’s Mach .56, and has a longer range (750 nautical miles to the A-10’s 695). Like the A-10, it, too, has a 30mm Gatling gun.
So, which plane is the better option? Let’s be very blunt here: The A-10 brings more payload and is tougher. The Frogfoot might be 40% faster than the Warthog, but it can’t outrun a Sidewinder, while an AA-8 is likely to just annoy the Warthog’s pilot and really infuriate the crew chief.
Let’s be honest, the Soviets made a knock-off of the losing design, and it would probably lose in a fight with an A-10, too.
The big reason the A-10 won the A-X competition in 1973 was due to the fact that Fairchild had the design pretty well locked down. The plane was merged with the GAU-8 30mm Avenger cannon, given a very powerful bomb load (up to 16,000 pounds of cluster bombs, laser-guided bombs, iron bombs, AGM-65 Maverick missiles, and rockets). The A-10C, which entered service in 2005, added the ability to use Joint Direct Attack Munitions (GPS-guided smart bombs) and the Wind-Corrected Munition Dispensers (cluster bombs with GPS-guidance and a range of over 12 miles). The plane even carries AIM-9 Sidewinders for self-defense (although, Desert Storm proved that the GAU-8 can take down aircraft, too). In short, this is a plane that is designed to kill enemy tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers, and grunts.
The A-10 can not only dish out punishment, it can take it. Like the P-47 Thunderbolt, there are tales of terribly damaged A-10s bringing their pilots home. Perhaps the most famous example was the 2003 incident where Air Force Capt. Kim “Killer Chick” Campbell brought her A-10 home on manual reversion. The A-10 was designed to come home with serious battle damage – and it has.
The Su-25, though, is an interesting beast. The Soviets followed the A-X competition and decided they needed a plane like that of their own.
That said, they picked the loser of the competition to copy. The Su-25 carries about 9,000 pounds of bombs, rockets and missiles, including the AA-8 Aphid. It is a bit faster, hitting Mach .8 as opposed to the A-10’s Mach .56, and has a longer range (750 nautical miles to the A-10’s 695). Like the A-10, it, too, has a 30mm Gatling gun.
So, which plane is the better option? Let’s be very blunt here: The A-10 brings more payload and is tougher. The Frogfoot might be 40% faster than the Warthog, but it can’t outrun a Sidewinder, while an AA-8 is likely to just annoy the Warthog’s pilot and really infuriate the crew chief.
Let’s be honest, the Soviets made a knock-off of the losing design, and it would probably lose in a fight with an A-10, too.
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MSgt Mike (Lobo VNV Original) Morrow
At this time I don't believe there is an equivalent aircraft than can do all that the A-10 can do.
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CMSgt Larry Ward
My FCF pilot at Davis Monthan AFB developed a procedure that would allow the A-10 to shoot down an F-16....
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Maj John D Benedict
SP5 Mark Kuzinski, thank you for providing the rundown. Interesting competition.
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LTC Paul Labrador
The 30mm gun on the Su-25 is more akin to the 30mm found on the Apaches. It's nowhere near as powerful as the 30mm on the A10.
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No battle. The A-10 would blow the Frogfoot away from the gitgo. I worked A-10s for 3 years while stationed at Nellis AFB. Awesome plane. In dissimilar air to air combat, the A-10 could out turn every aircraft that ever went up against it. The only way another aircraft could score a kill on a Warthog was to stand off and hit it with a missile. And that usually didn't occur to the other pilot until he had lost repeatedly. Seems they simply had to show off and let the Warthog driver know they were there. That big gun can stay pointed at you on the ground or in the air for what seems like days. I used to ride in pickup trucks serving as targets for the A-10 while our Nellis pilots were training Army helicopter pilots how to manage a battle field with tanks, A-10s and choppers. The A-10 would drop in behind us and no matter what the driver of the truck tried to do, would hold that gun on us for up to 30 seconds! The only shortcoming I know of for the A-10 is the small number of rounds available for the gun, about 15 seconds worth!
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MSgt Mike (Lobo VNV Original) Morrow
When I was stationed in Europe they were holding war games. the red team had a flight of helios behind a ridge line waiting for the blue tanks to show. Two A-10's came along and saw what was going to happen; they lined up and swooped in calling guns on the choppers. Red team called foul because the A-10 was not suppose to be an air to air fighter. Blue won the argument and credited the A-10 with kills. This was in '81.
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TSgt Dan Decker
The A-10 is a helluvan air to air fighter. That 30mm cannon spitting 4200 rounds a minute does a lot of damage in a VERY short length of time. I understand that they have slowed down the rate of fire to try and lengthen the service time of the barrels. Now it only shoots at 3900 rpm!
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Maj John D Benedict
When I was an advisor in Iraq, several of their folks told me they hated the A-10 because it was so quiet when coming towards you. It scared them.
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I don't know much about the Frogfoot, but I do know the A-10 has more than proven it's self many times over. Not just for fire power but durability and survivability for the pilot. Keeping the A-10 was the best decision thus far when it comes to military aviation.
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