Posted on Jun 13, 2014
The ISIS says they are marching on Baghdad next. Should we go back to Iraq?
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If the ISI takes Baghdad, does it make the entire war in vain?
http://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/andrea-mitchell-iraq-asks-us-help-quell-militant-uprising-n129086
http://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/andrea-mitchell-iraq-asks-us-help-quell-militant-uprising-n129086
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 59
Where we failed is by not instilling the importance of the PT belt in the Iraqi Army.
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Iraq is like a skanky crack whore we got pregnant and now we have no choice but to take care of the ugly baby left behind.
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What do you mean as we are already going back?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/sep/25/armys-big-red-one-hq-going-to-iraq-1st-infantry-di/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/sep/25/armys-big-red-one-hq-going-to-iraq-1st-infantry-di/
Army’s ‘Big Red One’ HQ going to Iraq: 1st Infantry Division soldiers deploy in October
Roughly 500 soldiers from the U.S. Army’s 1st Infantry Division headquarters are headed to the Middle East, with 200 of them to end up in Iraq.
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Short answer(s): Yes, if we have learned our lesson. No, if we are just going to do more of the same.
Long answer: The situation has changed. When we went into Iraq last time, we did it under conditions x, y, and z (insert your favorite political or military reasons here). Now, we have conditions a, b, and c (insert your interpretation of the conditions here) and the United States should evaluate its options under these new conditions irrespective of the previous conditions.
That being said, I believe that America is now at a new crossroads, a new opportunity to shape its future. Does it want to continue doing more of the same stabilizing action, or does it want to take our country in a new direction--whatever that may be? Personally, I do not want to expend any more American blood or national treasure to move piles of rocks around. Since ISIS is organizing itself more like a nation and less like a loose terrorist organization, it is possible to defeat ISIS as if it were a nation-state. Do I believe we would be stabilizing the region in doing so? Not really. After a decade-plus of war, we have chased away our best warrior leaders. I do *not* believe we can win any wars with the beleaguered, financially strapped, manpower-depleted shell of a force we have today. We can certainly win lots of battles, but we are incapable of winning wars unless we look back at the past decade-plus and gleam some lessons out of the OEF and OIF.
Long answer: The situation has changed. When we went into Iraq last time, we did it under conditions x, y, and z (insert your favorite political or military reasons here). Now, we have conditions a, b, and c (insert your interpretation of the conditions here) and the United States should evaluate its options under these new conditions irrespective of the previous conditions.
That being said, I believe that America is now at a new crossroads, a new opportunity to shape its future. Does it want to continue doing more of the same stabilizing action, or does it want to take our country in a new direction--whatever that may be? Personally, I do not want to expend any more American blood or national treasure to move piles of rocks around. Since ISIS is organizing itself more like a nation and less like a loose terrorist organization, it is possible to defeat ISIS as if it were a nation-state. Do I believe we would be stabilizing the region in doing so? Not really. After a decade-plus of war, we have chased away our best warrior leaders. I do *not* believe we can win any wars with the beleaguered, financially strapped, manpower-depleted shell of a force we have today. We can certainly win lots of battles, but we are incapable of winning wars unless we look back at the past decade-plus and gleam some lessons out of the OEF and OIF.
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LTC Paul Labrador
Winning wars, in the context you have laid out, is more a matter of political will than military ability. If we wer to go back today and fight ISIS in a stand-up fight, we would win in combat (not saying it would be easy or bloodless, but that will not change the ultimate outcome). But how you handle the aftermath is just as important. I have seen no indications we have the political will to do anything.
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SFC (Join to see)
Our political will seems to be wiltering right before our very eyes. The debate over which POTUS is or was responsible for the current condition of Iraq is laughable. I think it is time that we as a nation stop attempting to fix everyone else's issues when we have our own issues wight here on our home soil. LTC Labrador, I completely agree with your sentiment here. We would absolutely destroy ISIS in a physical sense of war, but what would we really gain by doing so? Do you really feel like we, or the country of Iraq for that matter, would gain anything by defeating ISIS?
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Maj Walter Kilar
LTC Labrador: It appears that is the case--that the U.S. military has the might to win just about any battle, but lacks the political will to win protracted wars. It is the aftermath of winning the battles that seems to give us problems.
SSG Young: I have no idea what America would gain in defeating ISIS, since we have not yet seen the gain in recent conflicts. If smashing an army and leaving is considered victory, then we are good at that. If we have to defeat an army and stabilize an entire nation, we are essentially rebooting the last Iraq war.
SSG Young: I have no idea what America would gain in defeating ISIS, since we have not yet seen the gain in recent conflicts. If smashing an army and leaving is considered victory, then we are good at that. If we have to defeat an army and stabilize an entire nation, we are essentially rebooting the last Iraq war.
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SSG, the president specifically said during Friday conference that we're NOT going back. If he's the man of his word, he'll stand by it whether Iraq asks for help or not. If he goes back to his old flip-flopping self, then stand by.
What he should've said was that no troops are going back AT THIS TIME. Then he'd be justified in calling us back. Obummer
What he should've said was that no troops are going back AT THIS TIME. Then he'd be justified in calling us back. Obummer
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Under the current circumstances we will not go back. It would look way too bad for the folks who made the call. I find myself torn on this one personally. I don't think "we" can fix the situation in Iraq. However, I am also aware that none can afford the realities of a terrorist run Iraq. The thought of a new and very powerful terrorist state is in itself a scary thought of unimaginable proportions. The potential spillover is something the region and the world cannot afford to ignore.
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LTC Paul Labrador
SFC Perry, I agree. What you have pointed out are the 2nd and 3rd order effects that most folks are not acknowledging.
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Going in the first time was controversial and later proved the reasons for going, WMDs, were not located, if they even existed. Our military pushed the radicals down in their holes, but did not defang them and now they are back, no surprise. Everywhere you look in the middle east the radicals are taking control and before long they will all be philosophically aligned with Iran and become a threat to world peace. We will have to fight this war again, but I do not believe going back into Iraq will solve anything. Even if we kill thousands of insurgents, more will come and at the cost of American lives. It is just not worth it. Democracy will not work in a nation where tribal customs exist and refuse to die and where the electorate is basically illiterate. Let the chips fall where they will.
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LTC Paul Labrador
This is Iraq, not Afghanistan. While many of the political affiliations do fall across tribal and sectarian lines, the electorate IS NOT basically illiterate. Iraq had a very high rate of education in the past, and the majority of it's population were congregatd in urban areas. The issue in Iraq is that those in power are milking the country for their OWN benefit, not for the benefit of the people, so there is no social cohesion any more.
Now becoming philosophically aligned with Iran is a tall order. First off, Iranian are Persian Shiites whereas these AQ splinter groups are predominantly Sunni Arab movements. Those two mix like oil and water. The question though is will they put aside their very deeply ingrained differences (albeit temporarily) to stand against the Great Satan? I don't know, but honestly I doubt it. One will vie for supremacy in the region THEN confront the West.
Now becoming philosophically aligned with Iran is a tall order. First off, Iranian are Persian Shiites whereas these AQ splinter groups are predominantly Sunni Arab movements. Those two mix like oil and water. The question though is will they put aside their very deeply ingrained differences (albeit temporarily) to stand against the Great Satan? I don't know, but honestly I doubt it. One will vie for supremacy in the region THEN confront the West.
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Suspended Profile
I feel that all my friends that I lost over there died for nothing. I never agreed with the decision to pull out of Iraq. But I dont make those choices and we as Soldiers dont have to luxury to pick and choices which orders we follow. We follow all rules, regulations, and orders given to us from the people appointed above us.
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