Posted on Aug 17, 2015
This is why standards should not be lowered in order to get anybody into SF's. Do you know Lt. Kara Hultgreen's story?
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This is NOT a thread to demonstrate why women shouldn't be in combat. It's a thread to demonstrate why standards shouldn't be lowered to get them (or anyone) there. Please be civil.
In the early 90's, the White house and Congress were fairly desperate to rid themselves of the stink of Tail Hook, and so instigated a program to allow women to become combat pilots in the Navy. Lt. Hultgreen was the first of these. During her training, she received several 'down' marks, any of which would have sent a male packing. Yet she continued to advance through her training. It cost her her life.
"Documents obtained by Elaine Donnelly, director of CMR (Center for Military Readiness), shows that Lt. Hultgreen not only had subpar performance on several phases of her training but had four "downs" (major errors), just one or two of which are sufficient to justify the dismissal of a trainee. The White House and Congress' political pressure to get more women in combat is the direct cause of Lt. Hultgreen's death. But the story doesn't end there. A second female F-14A pilot, identified by Elaine Donnelly only as Pilot B, has been allowed to continue training despite marginal scores and seven "downs", the last of which was not recorded so she could pass the final stages of training." -- "Costly Affirmative Action" -- Walter E Williams.
In the approach that killed her, she made five identified errors, causing a stall that had, up until that time, never been caused in such a manner in the F-14. She died for political correctness.
I am sure that Lt. Hultgreen was a fine person. She should have never been in that cockpit. Her RIO nearly died as a result. Her death lies squarely at the feet of the White House, Congress, and the Naval leadership that allowed this to happen.
Soon after her death, policy was changed that required females to meet the same standards. And as you know, today, there are plenty of excellent female fighter pilots who SHOULD be where they are.
Because they met the bar.
No more. No less.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara_Hultgreen
In the early 90's, the White house and Congress were fairly desperate to rid themselves of the stink of Tail Hook, and so instigated a program to allow women to become combat pilots in the Navy. Lt. Hultgreen was the first of these. During her training, she received several 'down' marks, any of which would have sent a male packing. Yet she continued to advance through her training. It cost her her life.
"Documents obtained by Elaine Donnelly, director of CMR (Center for Military Readiness), shows that Lt. Hultgreen not only had subpar performance on several phases of her training but had four "downs" (major errors), just one or two of which are sufficient to justify the dismissal of a trainee. The White House and Congress' political pressure to get more women in combat is the direct cause of Lt. Hultgreen's death. But the story doesn't end there. A second female F-14A pilot, identified by Elaine Donnelly only as Pilot B, has been allowed to continue training despite marginal scores and seven "downs", the last of which was not recorded so she could pass the final stages of training." -- "Costly Affirmative Action" -- Walter E Williams.
In the approach that killed her, she made five identified errors, causing a stall that had, up until that time, never been caused in such a manner in the F-14. She died for political correctness.
I am sure that Lt. Hultgreen was a fine person. She should have never been in that cockpit. Her RIO nearly died as a result. Her death lies squarely at the feet of the White House, Congress, and the Naval leadership that allowed this to happen.
Soon after her death, policy was changed that required females to meet the same standards. And as you know, today, there are plenty of excellent female fighter pilots who SHOULD be where they are.
Because they met the bar.
No more. No less.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kara_Hultgreen
Military History
Political Correctness
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 53
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Not sure why you got a downvote SN Greg Wright. I can see nothing negative in this point. Though, some people have a hard time when facts are presented that shatter a belief they hold.
This is a very good post. It makes the argument that many try to make, except you did so w/ research & articulation. :)
This is a very good post. It makes the argument that many try to make, except you did so w/ research & articulation. :)
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Question: by congress and the White House lowering these standards, how many lives did they jeopardize? Besides the RIO.
I, personally, wouldn't want to fly with someone I know that couldn't "cut the mustard" in my squadron.
In my opinion, the Politically Correct attitude put many lives in danger due to short cutting corners.
I, personally, wouldn't want to fly with someone I know that couldn't "cut the mustard" in my squadron.
In my opinion, the Politically Correct attitude put many lives in danger due to short cutting corners.
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SN Greg Wright
SA Harold Hansmann Well, if she'd crashed on the deck....Burn, Baby, Burn.
(How's that for a Boot reference?!)
(How's that for a Boot reference?!)
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Growing up a Navy brat and spending most of my younger years around Navy aviation this was a well known story.
Of all of the Aircraft in the Navy inventory the Tomcat was well known for being very difficult to fly.
This wasn't a graceful svelte fly by wire fighter. Designed during the Vietnam War, the F-14 hit the fleet in 1973. Old world technology in one of the heaviest fighter bombers weighing in at load well above 50,000 pounds I believe.
If ever there was an aircraft the needed physical strength to be manhandled this was it.
A young female naval officer that should have never been in that cockpit based on her training ratings paid the ultimate price in the war of political correctness.
Of all of the Aircraft in the Navy inventory the Tomcat was well known for being very difficult to fly.
This wasn't a graceful svelte fly by wire fighter. Designed during the Vietnam War, the F-14 hit the fleet in 1973. Old world technology in one of the heaviest fighter bombers weighing in at load well above 50,000 pounds I believe.
If ever there was an aircraft the needed physical strength to be manhandled this was it.
A young female naval officer that should have never been in that cockpit based on her training ratings paid the ultimate price in the war of political correctness.
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CCMSgt (Join to see)
Yes CSM Payne, then throw in asymmetrical loading and a compressor stall. Hard to fly, harder to recover.
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SN Greg Wright This is a terrible tragedy, unfortunately we see failure to follow standards result in poor outcomes too often.
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It's incredibly naive to lower standards during wartime for "social experimentation". It's politics being placed superior to common sense. We will live to regret it.
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Suspended Profile
This is a rerun>><
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Can't agree with many of these posts more... I think everyone can agree that standards cannot be lowered.
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Standards should never be lowered. Here I even provided some reading of my own since I keep hearing those complaining compare it to the women going through Ranger school....
Do I personally want to go through the training? Naw, I'm good. But that doesn't mean there isn't some bad ass female out there that does want to and can succeed. When you begin to eliminate entire groups, you loose out on the exceptional ones. The ones that change history.
Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/08/20/ranger-school-officer-combats-rumors-about-how-women-passed-in-pointed-facebook-post/
Do I personally want to go through the training? Naw, I'm good. But that doesn't mean there isn't some bad ass female out there that does want to and can succeed. When you begin to eliminate entire groups, you loose out on the exceptional ones. The ones that change history.
Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/08/20/ranger-school-officer-combats-rumors-about-how-women-passed-in-pointed-facebook-post/
Ranger School officer combats rumors about how women passed in pointed Facebook post
'We could have video recorded every patrol and you would still say that we 'gave' it away,' the executive officer of the Airborne and Ranger Training Brigade said.
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