Posted on Jan 15, 2015
This MEDEVAC video from Afghanistan could make you even more frustrated with ROE; do you think they should change?
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World: A Rescue, Under Fire | The New York Times
C.J. Chivers provides an aerial analysis of the medevac helicopter rescue of Cpl. Zachary K. Kruger in Marja, Afghanistan. Related Article: http://nyti.ms/fj...
Imagine you’re a door gunner in this Afghanistan MEDEVAC scenario. Watch the short video and then answer our question at the end.
Here is the video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mplWAClhAW8#t=14
//REAL SCENARIO BELOW //
A Marine Corporal (Cpl) has been shot. His squad is in the middle of a firefight in Marjah, Afghanistan. Your MEDEVAC unit was already on station, and now your Blackhawk is screaming in fast and low. You’re the Blackhawk door gunner (your helicopter is one of the escort birds) and desperately trying to assess the ground situation. The Marines are still taking fire, but you don’t know from where. You spot the green smoke grenade marker designating the landing zone. Your heart is racing. It’s go time.
Then you notice something very ominous…
Hiding along the tree line nearby are multiple MAMs (Military Aged Males) who may be hostiles. They may be the ones engaging the Marines. They may try to kill you. They look suspicious but you can’t get tell whether they have weapons. Although you know they may be totally innocent, you consider firing warning shots in their vicinity. You decide not to.
The MEDEVAC Blackhawk lands and they immediately start taking fire from 3 sides. Now answer the question below.
//
Question for the RallyPoint community: As the door gunner in one of the escort birds, would you have fired the warning shots anyway? Why or why not?
Here is the video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mplWAClhAW8#t=14
//REAL SCENARIO BELOW //
A Marine Corporal (Cpl) has been shot. His squad is in the middle of a firefight in Marjah, Afghanistan. Your MEDEVAC unit was already on station, and now your Blackhawk is screaming in fast and low. You’re the Blackhawk door gunner (your helicopter is one of the escort birds) and desperately trying to assess the ground situation. The Marines are still taking fire, but you don’t know from where. You spot the green smoke grenade marker designating the landing zone. Your heart is racing. It’s go time.
Then you notice something very ominous…
Hiding along the tree line nearby are multiple MAMs (Military Aged Males) who may be hostiles. They may be the ones engaging the Marines. They may try to kill you. They look suspicious but you can’t get tell whether they have weapons. Although you know they may be totally innocent, you consider firing warning shots in their vicinity. You decide not to.
The MEDEVAC Blackhawk lands and they immediately start taking fire from 3 sides. Now answer the question below.
//
Question for the RallyPoint community: As the door gunner in one of the escort birds, would you have fired the warning shots anyway? Why or why not?
Posted in these groups: 
Rules of Engagement (ROE)
Rules of Engagement (ROE)
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 71
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Absolutely not. Can't fire unless you are 100% sure you are being engaged. Doing what is right is what separates us from everyone else.
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As a former Army medic, I know how difficult it can be to have to try and save our brothers in arms during situations like this. You want to take up arms and join the fight, but you must keep in mind you're there to save lives not take them. Your escort has the responsibility for protecting you and your casualties during a medivac mission. So as much as I might want a change in ROEs, it would not be practical. Medics need their hands free to treat casualties.
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I was in Helmund Province in 2012, 2013. We launched with two MEDEVAC birds. Lead had two Medics and a Crew Chief and our chase bird had one Medic and one one Crew Chief. If we flew into a known Hot Zone a Marine escort consisting of a Super Huey and a Cobra would provide cover for us. Upon reaching the LZ Lead would recon and land and Chase would loiter within eye shot of Lead. If there were more patients that needed to be picked up Chase would come in and land once Lead left. In certain situations we were allowed to go red and point our M4 out the window for that just in case scenario where we were engaged flying over known threat areas.
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I love this discussion but hate to see what would happen if all this correct valuable information would get into the enemies hands. To join this post I just gave an email address and answered some questions. something any enemy of the state could do.
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Yes - I would have fired the warning shots - if nothing else to see IF we were fired back on! If not then they are "probably" civilians/non-combatants. If they do, you "may" have a 'slight edge'.
The same scenario happened in Vietnam MANY TIMES and many KIA's validate the efforts of the loyal service men and women trying NOT to let the men in peril, die without trying to at least get them off the ground in an attempt to get them to the nearest medical aid. Sad but TRUE!
I AM one of the lucky survivors - many of my friends are not!
The same scenario happened in Vietnam MANY TIMES and many KIA's validate the efforts of the loyal service men and women trying NOT to let the men in peril, die without trying to at least get them off the ground in an attempt to get them to the nearest medical aid. Sad but TRUE!
I AM one of the lucky survivors - many of my friends are not!
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Having worked extensively with dust offs down range, this article makes little to no sense!
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Having been "on-station" for some time, I would imagine having been in similar situations prior to this one. Yes I would have fired the warning shots. If theMAs turned out to be non-combatants, they probably run off. If they are bad guys, they start shooting right then giving me better intel than I had a moment before.
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If they are just MAM's and no signs of aggression and no visible weapons, no I would not have engaged. I would however keep them in my sights as to landing they change there posture then I can engage with effective fire. But knowing that I have to have PID I can't just light up the wood line. That is when I would talk to the support helicopter and have them engage the enemy with effective fire, giving where they where in relation to where I had landed and also told the Marines whee they where as not to be out flanked.
It is easy to sit here behind a screen and point out what I would have done or what should have been done.
It is easy to sit here behind a screen and point out what I would have done or what should have been done.
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