Posted on Jan 15, 2015
This MEDEVAC video from Afghanistan could make you even more frustrated with ROE; do you think they should change?
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World: A Rescue, Under Fire | The New York Times
C.J. Chivers provides an aerial analysis of the medevac helicopter rescue of Cpl. Zachary K. Kruger in Marja, Afghanistan. Related Article: http://nyti.ms/fj...
Imagine you’re a door gunner in this Afghanistan MEDEVAC scenario. Watch the short video and then answer our question at the end.
Here is the video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mplWAClhAW8#t=14
//REAL SCENARIO BELOW //
A Marine Corporal (Cpl) has been shot. His squad is in the middle of a firefight in Marjah, Afghanistan. Your MEDEVAC unit was already on station, and now your Blackhawk is screaming in fast and low. You’re the Blackhawk door gunner (your helicopter is one of the escort birds) and desperately trying to assess the ground situation. The Marines are still taking fire, but you don’t know from where. You spot the green smoke grenade marker designating the landing zone. Your heart is racing. It’s go time.
Then you notice something very ominous…
Hiding along the tree line nearby are multiple MAMs (Military Aged Males) who may be hostiles. They may be the ones engaging the Marines. They may try to kill you. They look suspicious but you can’t get tell whether they have weapons. Although you know they may be totally innocent, you consider firing warning shots in their vicinity. You decide not to.
The MEDEVAC Blackhawk lands and they immediately start taking fire from 3 sides. Now answer the question below.
//
Question for the RallyPoint community: As the door gunner in one of the escort birds, would you have fired the warning shots anyway? Why or why not?
Here is the video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mplWAClhAW8#t=14
//REAL SCENARIO BELOW //
A Marine Corporal (Cpl) has been shot. His squad is in the middle of a firefight in Marjah, Afghanistan. Your MEDEVAC unit was already on station, and now your Blackhawk is screaming in fast and low. You’re the Blackhawk door gunner (your helicopter is one of the escort birds) and desperately trying to assess the ground situation. The Marines are still taking fire, but you don’t know from where. You spot the green smoke grenade marker designating the landing zone. Your heart is racing. It’s go time.
Then you notice something very ominous…
Hiding along the tree line nearby are multiple MAMs (Military Aged Males) who may be hostiles. They may be the ones engaging the Marines. They may try to kill you. They look suspicious but you can’t get tell whether they have weapons. Although you know they may be totally innocent, you consider firing warning shots in their vicinity. You decide not to.
The MEDEVAC Blackhawk lands and they immediately start taking fire from 3 sides. Now answer the question below.
//
Question for the RallyPoint community: As the door gunner in one of the escort birds, would you have fired the warning shots anyway? Why or why not?
Posted in these groups: 
Rules of Engagement (ROE)
Rules of Engagement (ROE)
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 71
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I don't know about today, but do know about Viet Nam. In most cases a second helicopter would escort the medivac and provide support fire. In this scenario, without a clear threat, the crew chief and door gunner's main job would to be in contact with the support chopper to advise the coordinates of the suspected threats, for immediate reaction at the sight of a weapon or puff of gunfire.
Doc- FMF RVN 67,68
Doc- FMF RVN 67,68
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this is a great question, one that should be reviewed with a mature perspective rather than the simple half ass answer of just killing people. Think of the bigger picture regarding legal and ethical repercussions. Every life we remove from this world is a decision that should be made with maturity and values. We cannot take back or " do over" those decisions.
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wrong or right if i was in the support copters and i had to make a choice i would shoot, sorry im going home for dinner' what happens in the field should just stay there'
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I'm afraid that as an old retired Army SSG., I'd have opened up on them. Shooting over their heads---- I don't think so, if its time to shoot, its time to kill.
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I am former National Guard. I have never seen combat. Having said that, I believe that rules of engagement exist for a reason. No I would NOT have fired warning shots. I may be naive, but that is where I come down on it. Unless I feel an order is unlawful, I would follow it to the letter and spirit to the best of my ability. Right or wrong, thats my take.
For any medevac crew out there... THANK YOU for what you do. You guys are nothing short of AWESOME!
For any medevac crew out there... THANK YOU for what you do. You guys are nothing short of AWESOME!
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SFC (Join to see)
I agree with you. I just want to add, a gunner does not have to request permission to fire at hostile acts. A Senior Ranking Soldier that demands a request will quickly learn this request for fire while eventually compromise the lives of his Soldiers and will eventually be replaced with someone more competent. The gunner is given that discretionary power when obtaining the label of "gunner".
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Without hesitation! Yes. If an escort has the mounted crew served then yes. Otherwise it is just added weight to the craft. Those blue forces on the ground expect it to flush out the bad hajis. It is just good report to the locals too. Controlled violence can be administered as the gold standard of obedience over chaos.
Brenda, the term is "medevac." Just make sure Anderson Cooper isn't in the bird with you.
Brenda, the term is "medevac." Just make sure Anderson Cooper isn't in the bird with you.
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Alright tools, calm down. DUSTOFF aircraft don't have door gunners, but the vignette clearly states that you aren't on the MEDEVAC bird, you're on an escort 60 and it's reasonable to assume that it's an A/C from an assault or C & C unit. The question is would you have fired warning shots into the group of civilians in the tree line? My answer: If the ROE allowed me to fire if I thought the group posed a threat, hell yes Hadji is done. And if the ROE made me wait until Hadji actually shot at me or mine, that's what I'd do because I'm a professional and I follow the orders of those appointed over me just like I swore to do when I was 17 years old.
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