Posted on Jan 15, 2015
This MEDEVAC video from Afghanistan could make you even more frustrated with ROE; do you think they should change?
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World: A Rescue, Under Fire | The New York Times
C.J. Chivers provides an aerial analysis of the medevac helicopter rescue of Cpl. Zachary K. Kruger in Marja, Afghanistan. Related Article: http://nyti.ms/fj...
Imagine you’re a door gunner in this Afghanistan MEDEVAC scenario. Watch the short video and then answer our question at the end.
Here is the video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mplWAClhAW8#t=14
//REAL SCENARIO BELOW //
A Marine Corporal (Cpl) has been shot. His squad is in the middle of a firefight in Marjah, Afghanistan. Your MEDEVAC unit was already on station, and now your Blackhawk is screaming in fast and low. You’re the Blackhawk door gunner (your helicopter is one of the escort birds) and desperately trying to assess the ground situation. The Marines are still taking fire, but you don’t know from where. You spot the green smoke grenade marker designating the landing zone. Your heart is racing. It’s go time.
Then you notice something very ominous…
Hiding along the tree line nearby are multiple MAMs (Military Aged Males) who may be hostiles. They may be the ones engaging the Marines. They may try to kill you. They look suspicious but you can’t get tell whether they have weapons. Although you know they may be totally innocent, you consider firing warning shots in their vicinity. You decide not to.
The MEDEVAC Blackhawk lands and they immediately start taking fire from 3 sides. Now answer the question below.
//
Question for the RallyPoint community: As the door gunner in one of the escort birds, would you have fired the warning shots anyway? Why or why not?
Here is the video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mplWAClhAW8#t=14
//REAL SCENARIO BELOW //
A Marine Corporal (Cpl) has been shot. His squad is in the middle of a firefight in Marjah, Afghanistan. Your MEDEVAC unit was already on station, and now your Blackhawk is screaming in fast and low. You’re the Blackhawk door gunner (your helicopter is one of the escort birds) and desperately trying to assess the ground situation. The Marines are still taking fire, but you don’t know from where. You spot the green smoke grenade marker designating the landing zone. Your heart is racing. It’s go time.
Then you notice something very ominous…
Hiding along the tree line nearby are multiple MAMs (Military Aged Males) who may be hostiles. They may be the ones engaging the Marines. They may try to kill you. They look suspicious but you can’t get tell whether they have weapons. Although you know they may be totally innocent, you consider firing warning shots in their vicinity. You decide not to.
The MEDEVAC Blackhawk lands and they immediately start taking fire from 3 sides. Now answer the question below.
//
Question for the RallyPoint community: As the door gunner in one of the escort birds, would you have fired the warning shots anyway? Why or why not?
Posted in these groups: 
Rules of Engagement (ROE)
Rules of Engagement (ROE)
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 71
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ryou decide on ROE, being static and hidebound by things like the Geneva Convention rules is not only stupid, it's deadly. Yes, we are Americans, we play by the rules, we're the good guys. But if the bad guys decide not to play by the rules, then all bets are off. Civilians in this situation, noncombatants, people without weapons would never be wandering around during an obvious firefight. They would be hugging the ground, or they would be trying to find a place to hide, not looking around, over hedges and past buildings. if the rules of engagement still refuse to acknowledge the volatile situations, the fluid situations, then yes they need to be changed. Did we learn nothing at all from Vietnam, where the enemy used children to carry bombs into the midst of groups of soldiers in civilian areas? And the bad guys in these areas, Afghanistan and Iraq and points north, are using children to use RPGs and fully automatic weapons and bombs in the same manner. Worry about casualties, or worry about collateral damage and/or civilian casualties? In a war zone that should not even be a question. If it moves, it dies. Otherwise, stay the hell out of the war zone.
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Hard to know. I did not serve in the gulf. By my own morals I probably would not fire warning shots if the ROE's prohibited engaging unconfirmed combatants.
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Real question how close to hit? During a warning shot? 5-10-15-20-25-30 feet?? What I'd want to know, is that? Good or bad make them stop as a public service, them running up to help they'll get shot 50/50 any side
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The MAMs may opened fire either way IMHO whether you fired warning shots or not. From my understanding of the ROE after certain incidents in Iraq, Haditha incident in particular, you are not allowed to fire unless fired upon. Giving that I was not in that situation, as a POG ass Marine NCO I would be wondering where the 360 was set up that way suppression fire could have be sent down-range to quell the barrage of incoming fire. Sometimes ROE sucks and puts our brave service members in danger in more ways than one. But as a Veteran and having served with other service-members of various backgrounds and also of different MOSs, we know the risk and knew this from the get-go when we signed that contract.
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Forgive me my explained form, per understanding of Agent J from men in black, "little white girl In the hood late at night with quantum physics books?" Here in video are two who gives a damn men women or children! Running into the firezone ??? Normal - "down or out" not into the battle unless you got something major important in there!?
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yes i would if it meant saving a life or many i wouldnt put my sisters or brothers in anymore danger than they should be in while doing there jobs .... if i could help it I WILL
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The MAM's "didn't pose a threat" to the helo as it passed over. According to the ROE's of PID of said MAM's they couldn't have engaged. Even warning shots. They would have needed to use chaff or pen flares or some type of signalling mechanism first. It's a crummy situation, but that is the way it is thanks to the ROE's. The govt is more concerned with world political associations than it is with whether or not it's soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen get home alive. In other words... welcome to COIN ops. where the rules are made up as you go, and your command will change them to cover their backside after you've done your job above and beyond the call of duty.
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CSM Clifford Fargason
I have a question for you. How did you manage to attend Engineer Officer Basic Course from Sep 2000 thru Mar 2001, yet your commissioning course was OCS in May 2001?
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I AM A MILITARY VET AND TO ME ITS LOOKED LIKE THEY WERE LOOKING SUSPICIOUS FROM THE JUMP SO IN A HOT LANDING ZONE TO PICK UP SOLIDER WHO HAVE ALREADY BEEN WOUNDED ME MYSELF I WOULD NOT HAVE TAKEN THAT CHANCE TO SEE IF THEY WERE HOSTEL BECAUSE MORE LIKELY THAN NOT IN A HOT ZONE IF IT LOOK OR FEEL OR SEEN ITS OUT OF PLACE OR THAT WAY THEN NINE TIME OUT OF TEN FOR ME IT IS THAT WAY SO I WOULD HAVE SPRAYED IT DOWN I WOULD HAVE ASKED MYSELF IN MY MIND WHY THEY IN THIS AREA IN THE FIRST PLACE BE EASY AND AT TIMES LIKE THAT YOU CAN NOT SECOND GUESS YOURSELF LIVE ARE AT STAKE
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