Posted on Jul 1, 2015
Three photographs were posted on Facebook from sources within the African American community. Is there truth to what the photographs allege?
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Three photographs were posted on Facebook from sources within the African American community. Is there any truth to what the photographs allege? Is there a disparity in treatment when law enforcement apprehends suspects to a crime. African Americans have alleged that innocent African American are brutalized when suspected of illegal activity and that others, that are not of African American heritage, are treated with dignity and respect. The first photograph depicts the treatment of an individual that massacred nine African American who were attending church services in South Carolina and compares it to the treatment of a New Yorker suspected of selling cigarettes from a street corner. The second photograph depicts a comparison contrast of the treatment an innocent young African American teenager received at a pool party. The third photo depicts the treatment Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. received while peacefully protesting in support of state law, federal law, and the constitutional rights, of all American citizens. Shocking and disturbing. Are modern African American citizens unlawfully receiving the same horrific treatment their forefathers received after more than 50 years post civil rights movement? I have not formulated an opinion but I do petition the opinions of Rallypoint professionals on this issue. It is a national concern.
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Equality Leadership Development
Posted >1 y ago
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COL (Join to see)
Yes the murder suspect appears compliant but is guilty. The African Americans were not guilty. Compliance at times equates to a constitutional right violation. If one is within his or her constitutional rights of pursuit of happiness, freedom of speech, and right to assemble, those rights are not to be impeded by unlawful search and seizure nor unlawful assault and battery. Thus the subsequent resignation of the police officer involved in the pool incident and the arrest and prosecution of six police officers in Baltimore.
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COL (Join to see)
Each American citizen is considered innocent until proven guilty by a court of law unless there is an admission of guilt. The police are not authorized to force compliance where compliance is not due. Lack of probable cause, lack of an admission of guilt, and lack of evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, equates to what?
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I'll just have to speak from my own experience as a police officer.
The monster in Charleston sat & waited to be taken into custody. He did not resist. He did not have a suicide pact (as the shooters in Columbine did once they realized LE was coming for them). Hence, there was no force other than custodial force, used to apprehend him.
Eric Garner was breaking a NY ordinance by selling "Loosies". He may have said to be not guilty of this crime by prosecutors after the fact, but he was guilty of breaking this ordinance, which is why the police were called to his location. He actively resisted arrest. The sergeant in command of the officers attempting to arrest Mr Garner was a black female & she gave the order to escalate force. He screamed that he cannot breath, but those that have gone through first responder training know that if someone can talk, they can breathe. Mr Garner died of heart issues - perhaps due to weight issues. Mr Garner was known to the NYPD as a repeat offender of ordinances & known to be resistant to arrest, therefore officer automatically go into a situation w/ him thinking that he is going to resist - it was his M.O.
The pool situation. Put yourself in that officer's shoes: You get a call to a disturbance. You have no idea what is going on, only basic details of numerous teenagers at a location they do not belong at. You show up & are outnumbered severely w/ backup en route, but still several minutes out. What is your course of action? You are faced w/ an unruly subject that appears to be inciting others. The logical choice for LE officers is you assert control over the apparent leader. You place yourself in a position in order to best protect yourself, even if that means drawing your firearm due to being severely outnumbered.
The photos from the Civil Rights movement are relevant, but do not reflect today's law enforcement. It is relevant to the practices of those in the south during that time. Those who made those laws, and the officers that upheld those laws.
AS a patrol officer, whenever someone would challenge that I was profiling, I would pose this question:
Were you breaking a law immediately before I stopped you?
As to those that think traffic stops are racial motivated, I challenge you. As you drive in to work, or home today, you look at the car in front of you. Can you tell me what race that driver belongs to? How about at night? Did that particular driver do anything that made you pay attention to their car? Was their tag expired? Were they swerving between lanes, not using their blinkers? Are they speeding? Is their taillight out?
There has to be reasonable belief in order to be stopped for a traffic violation. That reasonable belief can range from broken taillight (Safety violation) to warrant associated w/ that license plate.
I must have been an outlier in police work, if you are to believe those that are pushing racism so hard (hmmmm...could it be because they make a hell of a lot of money by pushing said subject?). The only subjects I ever had to use force on were white. I don't ever recall having to use force other than placing hands on/handcuffs on anyone that fell outside of the Caucasian descriptor.
Remember, a photo can be manipulated to tell you whatever story the editor wants it to tell you...
The monster in Charleston sat & waited to be taken into custody. He did not resist. He did not have a suicide pact (as the shooters in Columbine did once they realized LE was coming for them). Hence, there was no force other than custodial force, used to apprehend him.
Eric Garner was breaking a NY ordinance by selling "Loosies". He may have said to be not guilty of this crime by prosecutors after the fact, but he was guilty of breaking this ordinance, which is why the police were called to his location. He actively resisted arrest. The sergeant in command of the officers attempting to arrest Mr Garner was a black female & she gave the order to escalate force. He screamed that he cannot breath, but those that have gone through first responder training know that if someone can talk, they can breathe. Mr Garner died of heart issues - perhaps due to weight issues. Mr Garner was known to the NYPD as a repeat offender of ordinances & known to be resistant to arrest, therefore officer automatically go into a situation w/ him thinking that he is going to resist - it was his M.O.
The pool situation. Put yourself in that officer's shoes: You get a call to a disturbance. You have no idea what is going on, only basic details of numerous teenagers at a location they do not belong at. You show up & are outnumbered severely w/ backup en route, but still several minutes out. What is your course of action? You are faced w/ an unruly subject that appears to be inciting others. The logical choice for LE officers is you assert control over the apparent leader. You place yourself in a position in order to best protect yourself, even if that means drawing your firearm due to being severely outnumbered.
The photos from the Civil Rights movement are relevant, but do not reflect today's law enforcement. It is relevant to the practices of those in the south during that time. Those who made those laws, and the officers that upheld those laws.
AS a patrol officer, whenever someone would challenge that I was profiling, I would pose this question:
Were you breaking a law immediately before I stopped you?
As to those that think traffic stops are racial motivated, I challenge you. As you drive in to work, or home today, you look at the car in front of you. Can you tell me what race that driver belongs to? How about at night? Did that particular driver do anything that made you pay attention to their car? Was their tag expired? Were they swerving between lanes, not using their blinkers? Are they speeding? Is their taillight out?
There has to be reasonable belief in order to be stopped for a traffic violation. That reasonable belief can range from broken taillight (Safety violation) to warrant associated w/ that license plate.
I must have been an outlier in police work, if you are to believe those that are pushing racism so hard (hmmmm...could it be because they make a hell of a lot of money by pushing said subject?). The only subjects I ever had to use force on were white. I don't ever recall having to use force other than placing hands on/handcuffs on anyone that fell outside of the Caucasian descriptor.
Remember, a photo can be manipulated to tell you whatever story the editor wants it to tell you...
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COL (Join to see)
Well obviously if the U.S. government adjudicated Eric Garner to be not guilty, the police made an error in judgement. I tend to favor the custodians of the law; the United States government. Having served as a police officer and as a 15 year private investigator, I have witnessed police in violation of the law yet in preservation of pride and ego. Absolutely no one was attacking the police at the pool party. Those American citizens have the constitutional right to freely assemble in public areas. There existed absolutely no probable cause to detain anyone. The police officer in question subsequently resigned while under admonishment from the police department. I am not personally advocating race as the predominant issue referencing recent police brutality but obviously the American people are. Which American people you may ask? The American people that were protesting in the streets of Ferguson, Baltimore, and New York.
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SSgt (Join to see)
The people protesting in the streets of Ferguson were all bused in from outside. The ACTUAL citizens of Ferguson hated what they were doing to their city. I have a buddy that is a deputy there. He said it was easy to tell the two apart.
Mr. Garner was adjudicated AFTER the incident. He was guilty, at the time of the incident, of selling "loosies", which is an ordinance written by NYC to prohibit anyone from getting around the tax on the sale of tobacco. The police made no error in judgement. Mr Garner was known to be physically resistant. They were following the orders they received from the City Council & from the complaint called in by the store operators.
Darren Wilson also resigned his commission from the Ferguson PD during the investigation. He was found clear of any wrong-doing. Just because an officer resigns during the investigation doesn't mean they are committing anything wrong. I would know, I have personal experience on that subject. I know all about the good ol' boys protecting their pride & ego - they cost me my commission (long story not for RP boards). I know there are bad apples, but to pull out a few of the incidents that the media decides it needs to promote as how ALL LE agencies operate is just bad method.
Mr. Garner was adjudicated AFTER the incident. He was guilty, at the time of the incident, of selling "loosies", which is an ordinance written by NYC to prohibit anyone from getting around the tax on the sale of tobacco. The police made no error in judgement. Mr Garner was known to be physically resistant. They were following the orders they received from the City Council & from the complaint called in by the store operators.
Darren Wilson also resigned his commission from the Ferguson PD during the investigation. He was found clear of any wrong-doing. Just because an officer resigns during the investigation doesn't mean they are committing anything wrong. I would know, I have personal experience on that subject. I know all about the good ol' boys protecting their pride & ego - they cost me my commission (long story not for RP boards). I know there are bad apples, but to pull out a few of the incidents that the media decides it needs to promote as how ALL LE agencies operate is just bad method.
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Are we really entertaining race baiting, biased/skewed discussion on a military forum generally intended for professional development?
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COL (Join to see)
Equal opportunity is a very important part of professional development. The United States maintains the most racially diverse military when considering all nations of the earth. Being a racially diverse military, United States military leadership must be able to harness the abilities of a diverse work force in satisfying United States national defense goals. Yes we are discussing racial issues. Army leadership accomplishing Army equal opportunity concerns, ensure a stable and effective diverse force.
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CW3 (Join to see)
Civil police handling criminals, whether fairly or not, has no bearing on our conduct within our organization. Clearly you have your opinion on the matter, and your approach to the topic is a bit "matter of fact" in its bias, which can only invite a negative debate from other biases. I'm not aware of any police brutality based on race coming from our MP's, so I don't see how this discussion benefits is as a military, when the discussion revolves around "black people get treated poorly by cops", countered with a statement about cooperation/resisting arrest, and a general statement that the race card gets pulled too often. Again, this applies to us how? Why bring a Facebook meme debate that fuels biased argument about something that has zero effect on the way we do business? To vaguely place it under "EO" because it has to do with race, in no way describes how it is applicable to us.
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COL (Join to see)
U.S. Army military police become civil police upon exiting active duty. A well trained military policeman leaving active duty is a benefit to society. A poorly trained policeman can be a detriment to society. In some states, more than 40% to 50% of the civil police force are active U.S. Army Reservist and or National Guard personnel. In other states, more than 10% to 20% of the police force are current U.S. Army Reservist and or National Guard. The percentage varies by state. Among the ranks of most law enforcement agencies are a contingent of military Reservist and National Guard personnel who have been deployed or will be deployed to active duty. The U.S. military has fought two major wars in the past 10 years, relying heavily on the ranks of the National Guard and the Reserves to bolster the strength the regular Army. These working police officers who serve in the military are products of their military training to include equal opportunity training. Their police careers have been put on hold. Most likely their entire civilian lives also were put on hold while they are away on active duty. When they return from active duty, they will encounter the same racial challenges as current non-military police are encountering. Police departments logically want to know that the returning police officer is mentally and physically fit for duty and able to perform in a diverse population. Some may require mental health screening before returning them to full police duty. But it is wrong for any agency to assume that soldiers returning from war to their regular police jobs will have adjustment issues or racial biases. We also understand that while serving on active duty, these civil policemen will received equal opportunity training as we all do. Police officers returning from military service say a lot of factors determine how successfully they can readjust back to civilian life. Activated reservist and national guardsmen who serve as law enforcement officers in civilian life return to performing police work. Some have serious obstacles to overcome when trying to adjust to the civilian world resulting in increased police brutality incidents. Despite the challenges faced by veterans leaving active-duty military service for new or existing police careers, the ranks of police forces are swelling with veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Veterans returning from war are getting police jobs. Vets bring bona fide decision-making experience and solid leadership skills to the police ranks supplemented by their U.S. Army equal opportunity training reference interacting within a racially diverse American civilian population. There is strong evidence that many police departments are realizing the value of veterans when looking to hire the best candidates for civil police jobs. Many recruiters know that a police force diversified with military veteran officers that have extensive equal opportunity training, perform well when encountering a racially diverse American population. Rather you witnessed it or not, Americans have complained extensively to the U.S. government reference police brutality. A great percentage of some police forces in the United States are U.S. Army military reservist and national guardsmen. That is how it applies.
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