Posted on Feb 10, 2016
Unauthorized Boots, why do SM keep wearing them?
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The Air Force is simple. The regs say "Sage Green" boots with our ABU. If its green, its good.
Back when we wore tan boots, I wore Army boots as they were better quality and more appropriate for field duty. I knew some guys that wore USMC boots as they were great boots and comfortable. But the Globe and Anchor on the heel kind of stood out.
Back when we wore tan boots, I wore Army boots as they were better quality and more appropriate for field duty. I knew some guys that wore USMC boots as they were great boots and comfortable. But the Globe and Anchor on the heel kind of stood out.
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SMSgt Thor Merich
CMSgt (Join to see) - We can wear OCP's Chief? That would be great. I will have to make sure that Cannon got the message.
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CMSgt (Join to see)
SMSgt Thor Merich -
Do not run away and buy them yet! SOCOM AF personnel are authorized strictly due to the nature of our mission--Joint and SOF. We are not issued them, but if we have them from previous wear, we are allowed to wear them. BUT, we are not allowed to wear them in a strictly AF setting, e.g., TDY to ACC, PME schools, etc.
My $0.02, I have them but I don't wear them. I want to show ABU pride. :)
Do not run away and buy them yet! SOCOM AF personnel are authorized strictly due to the nature of our mission--Joint and SOF. We are not issued them, but if we have them from previous wear, we are allowed to wear them. BUT, we are not allowed to wear them in a strictly AF setting, e.g., TDY to ACC, PME schools, etc.
My $0.02, I have them but I don't wear them. I want to show ABU pride. :)
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SMSgt Thor Merich
CMSgt (Join to see) - At Cannon we are told that we can wear them 30 days prior to deployment. Since someone is always deploying, we see them all over base. I, for one (I am in the minority though) like the ABU's and wouldn't mind keeping them for a few more years before we change again.
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CMSgt (Join to see)
SMSgt Thor Merich -
I do too, but if they brought back the BDU, I would be delighted to shine up some black boots!! :)
I do too, but if they brought back the BDU, I would be delighted to shine up some black boots!! :)
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My response might rub some folks the wrong way...but here it is: We've created an "operator cult" in the modern military. Try as we may, we're all trying to be "heroes", and we don't see many films called, "Civil Affairs-The War for Hearts and Minds" starring Vin Diesel, or "Squids-Midwatch Hell" staring Clive Owen. Folks will push anything they think they can to be more "high speed", and boots are no exception.
From "coyote brown" tactical gear to Oakleys (usually 'Oakies') and "morale patches"...There's a million and one uniform infractions that get tolerated, if not "excused" downrange that end up filtering "up" range as well. I've still got my "modified" DCUs to prove it (shame on me).
Leadership has to lead the way, and that never works when undermined by leaders, whether commissioned or NCO who don't support those trying to uphold discipline and standards.
From "coyote brown" tactical gear to Oakleys (usually 'Oakies') and "morale patches"...There's a million and one uniform infractions that get tolerated, if not "excused" downrange that end up filtering "up" range as well. I've still got my "modified" DCUs to prove it (shame on me).
Leadership has to lead the way, and that never works when undermined by leaders, whether commissioned or NCO who don't support those trying to uphold discipline and standards.
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SPC (Join to see)
Well it's funny. The army puts out regulation for boot requirements etc... Then when it actually comes time to deploy I get reissued boots that don't meet regulation. Not complaining, the boots were amazing. Much more like a good hiking booking that what we wear.
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LCDR (Join to see)
I think I drew like four pairs of boots from central issue at Dix. Two pair of the "desert boots", one of the "GoreTex" version, and one of the heavy, solid black leather sort. I ended up keeping one of the desert pairs as a "grease" set for formations/etc at Riley...and wore the well broken in pair for the next two years till they fell apart. I never even put on the heavy black ones...and the GoreTex boots proved too heavy most of the time. Ultimately, they shouldn't issue you something, then gig you on it later...but the counterpoint is that they issue "boonie" caps as well, but don't expect them to be worn in garrison.
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LCDR (Join to see)
-I must add though that all of this discussion should be predicated by the FACT that issue gear will always be a step behind private purchase in the field due to volume production and bidding. In my humble opinion, if someone's walking along the line at an OP looking for uniform infractions...they might be taking things a bit too seriously in some cases-SOME I add :)
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MSG (Join to see)
On a Serious note, If you sit behind a desk you better be abiding by the regs. If you're in a CMF that requires you to constantly be on your feet, rucking etc. As an NCO it's my job to take care of you, don't care if your boots are authorized, if they look similar and they help you perform better, I have your back. I never understood these CSMs who get up there, become politicians and forget to take care of their Soldiers.
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I think we can clearly chalk up this incident in the "I don't care" category. Based on his response he clearly knows his boots are against the regulations. Unfortunately, he doesn't have enough integrity to do the right thing without being told by his NCO.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
SSG (Join to see) I'm glad my NCO is the kind of leader that doesn't tell you directly. He quotes the AR and if I don't get it, he'll print it for me to read it clearly.
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None of the below, lets get real for a moment, when the Clothing Sales store is selling them who is going to know the difference? Lets also be honest, as long as tanker boots & jump boots, Stetsons and God knows what else some command has authorized, is comfortable footwear that big a deal? Hell we as an Army preach Safety, so in the grand scheme of things the vast majority of soldiers should get a set of coveralls and safety boots as part of their CIF issue. But they don't, why is that, if safety is paramount? We are all supposed to be able to perform maintenance, and you are going to tell me that there is a unit that doesn't have ungodly heavy stuff that can dropped on some ones foot? Grass that doesn't need to be cut, chores that need to get done?
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Because they are too cool for issued boots and want you to know it.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
SPC Christopher Morehouse "Look at me, I don't follow regs and get away with it".
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Who walks around with the list of boots that are unauthorized?? I know I don't. I also don't have that thing memorized. Obviously if the color is off or there is a huge zipper on them they will look suspicious. I think soldiers are wearing them because nobody takes the time to check. You don't know what you don't know. There are pairs of boots out there that are unauthorized but look 100% the same as those that are.
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SFC (Join to see)
SGT(P) (Join to see) - That's the one that is widely known. They look just like the other Rocky boots. Like I said this whole boot thing is ridiculous.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see) if it was in my hands, I would exclude just hiking and zipper boots. Well, tan or coyote color would be added, but that's easier.
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SGT(P) (Join to see)
SFC (Join to see) I was already the PMA (Private Major of the Army), whenever I get to be SMA, is just a matter of time, I will make those changes. You may be retired by then, but you will hear about it.
We all are allowed to dream...
We all are allowed to dream...
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Have things changed!
We learned to spit-shine our black leather boots and dress shoes in boot camp!
Nothing like a spit-shined pair of boots to reflect light in a combat zone!
Not to mention the training that spit-shining gave us for civilian jobs!
As Gunny said, "You have running water, 10 toilets, and a shower: You're living in a f'ing mansion!"
We soon read the regs and found out that spit-shining footwear was a violation of MCOrders. Funny how the brass wanted us to disobey orders when it suited them!
Flash forward 10 years. I joined a State Guard unit, mainly to compete in firearms competitions.
One day during a Brigade gathering, I wore my spit-shined leather oxfords. My SgtMaj tells me that as a SSgt, I'm not authorized to wear high-gloss Corframs, only low-gloss. I started laughing. You should have seen their faces when I proved that I was wearing spit-shined leather oxfords!
We learned to spit-shine our black leather boots and dress shoes in boot camp!
Nothing like a spit-shined pair of boots to reflect light in a combat zone!
Not to mention the training that spit-shining gave us for civilian jobs!
As Gunny said, "You have running water, 10 toilets, and a shower: You're living in a f'ing mansion!"
We soon read the regs and found out that spit-shining footwear was a violation of MCOrders. Funny how the brass wanted us to disobey orders when it suited them!
Flash forward 10 years. I joined a State Guard unit, mainly to compete in firearms competitions.
One day during a Brigade gathering, I wore my spit-shined leather oxfords. My SgtMaj tells me that as a SSgt, I'm not authorized to wear high-gloss Corframs, only low-gloss. I started laughing. You should have seen their faces when I proved that I was wearing spit-shined leather oxfords!
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I think that you should also throw in that AR 670-1 is being changed a bit to often. At one point, most of us had the important parts memorized and knew what was authorized. Now, it seems like we have to go look up a lot more stuff. This means you have to go back and find the culprit, or chance correcting something that may be correct. Since most clothing sales stores have big signs telling joe what isn't authorized, why don't they just quit selling the stuff? This can go for the eye protection and a dozen other things as well. I always went by "if it was issued, it was authorized".
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While I agree that their needs to be regs on uniform appearance. Their also needs to common sense used on certain items like boots when it comes to the advantage of being comfortable and functional at the same time.
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SGT (Join to see)
Plus there really are bigger issues than freaking boots as long as they are not freaking stupid looking.
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LCDR (Join to see)
Well said-It's all about the situation. In the Fleet, we had HUGE problems with cold-weather gear...it simply wasn't issued. For junior enlisted Sailors, their one "jacket" had to be the to-be-all and end-all for every uniform situation, and that just didn't cut it for working on the flight deck of an LPD in the North Atlantic in March. Most of the Division Officers, myself included, tried going through Supply...but there was no money. Eventually, my Division got enough together to buy the guys a solid, commercial grade deck jacket that met all safety ratings and at least at the unit level, were somewhat uniform. We called them a controlled item, and part of the Division list...rather than individual equipment. Best of both worlds.
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