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Over the weekend at a training conference an NCO giving a class on standards and discipline asked the group to stand up. He then asked for everyone to sit down whose back pockets were buttoned. I was not one of the NCO's who sat as I always keep my left rear pocket unbuttoned and tucked in as this is where my wallet is at. He then attributed this as a lack of discipline.
The new AR 670-1 specifically states in Chapter 3 a.(3) that, "Soldiers will keep uniforms buttoned, zipped, and snapped."
Now, obviously this is pretty broad as my ACU's were certainly zipped, and looked professional, but technically were not completely 'buttoned'.
Do you fellow NCO's agree that the failing to button even the rear pockets on the trousers actually demonstrates a lack of discipline? If so, do you then inspect all of your troops to ensure that they are complying with this standard? Are all their buttons in the fly area of the ACU buttoned for example? Are yours? When you wear your ASU's do you button the inside button on the trousers?
I'm not fielding this question to complain about being called out... but instead to see what your thoughts are on the discipline thing.
The new AR 670-1 specifically states in Chapter 3 a.(3) that, "Soldiers will keep uniforms buttoned, zipped, and snapped."
Now, obviously this is pretty broad as my ACU's were certainly zipped, and looked professional, but technically were not completely 'buttoned'.
Do you fellow NCO's agree that the failing to button even the rear pockets on the trousers actually demonstrates a lack of discipline? If so, do you then inspect all of your troops to ensure that they are complying with this standard? Are all their buttons in the fly area of the ACU buttoned for example? Are yours? When you wear your ASU's do you button the inside button on the trousers?
I'm not fielding this question to complain about being called out... but instead to see what your thoughts are on the discipline thing.
Uniforms
NCOs
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 86
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All fasteners should be fastened. I never had problems getting in and out of pockets to get things out. Most pockets were kept empty.
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The correct answer is that you keep that pocket buttoned. I will admit that I frequently have to force myself to remember, so I will not adversely judge anyone else for forgetting. I realize that I have to do better remembering, and I will try to help others to remember as well, on the nicest way possible (because that is how I hope someone would treat me).
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1. What the hell is "ate up like a soup sandwich"
2. I don't recall buttons on the rear pockets of 'Seafarer Dungarees'
3. "Back in the Day" ABOARD SHIP buttoned pockets were not something that was at the top of things to worry about list.. Hells Bells with most shipboard landry's you were lucky to have all your buttons..
2. I don't recall buttons on the rear pockets of 'Seafarer Dungarees'
3. "Back in the Day" ABOARD SHIP buttoned pockets were not something that was at the top of things to worry about list.. Hells Bells with most shipboard landry's you were lucky to have all your buttons..
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Army regulations and policies are there for a reason. You are wrong. Every time you walk past a mistake, failure, or allow an inappropriate act you have created a new standard for your organization. Buttons buttoned, headgear outdoors, wearing a belt etc, all the same. Thank you for your service.
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I didn't answer the survey because I agree with none of those statements.
I did sew the corners down on the old BDUs because they never stayed down and looked flyaway, but that was my Garrison sets. My field sets (Read as older) had the full stuffed to the brim outdoorsy look.
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A couple of days after the Panama Invasion by the 82nd Airborne a news photo showed a patrol moving down the sides of the street. The patrol were at high port and scanning the buildings across the streets, covering each others opposite sides. One of the soldier's protective mask was dangling by one strap. A couple of our Troop's LTs asked me (PSG) what I thought (specificly the soldier's failure to be STRAC and his leaders failure to correct) about it . I responded with something like, "I don't know what to think because the patrol is obviously at high alert (you can even get bored while getting shot at) so they might have greater concerns."
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That's why my immediate reaction was that I needed to think about the self-described circumstances of the survey.
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My personal and professional opinion is you give them a chance to button-up if its an unannounced inspection. Before I go out in public, I check myself and have habits which maintain my appearance. Or you see something wrong with a soldier then you do a spot correction.
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As for being in a classroom at a Training Conference? YES. You were wrong since it was a previously notified activity. Also you were representing your unit and the military services - which is most like a part of what he was attempting to convey.
Crawling around in the weeds during training - Forgivable but only if we don't have to arm-and-arm search for your missing car keys.
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Either way I wouldn't beat myself up about it.
Its like calling'em "LTs" instead of "Lieutenants" like I wrote above. The intent was not to offend.
Thanks for the post - Good way to share a teaching point.
I did sew the corners down on the old BDUs because they never stayed down and looked flyaway, but that was my Garrison sets. My field sets (Read as older) had the full stuffed to the brim outdoorsy look.
.
A couple of days after the Panama Invasion by the 82nd Airborne a news photo showed a patrol moving down the sides of the street. The patrol were at high port and scanning the buildings across the streets, covering each others opposite sides. One of the soldier's protective mask was dangling by one strap. A couple of our Troop's LTs asked me (PSG) what I thought (specificly the soldier's failure to be STRAC and his leaders failure to correct) about it . I responded with something like, "I don't know what to think because the patrol is obviously at high alert (you can even get bored while getting shot at) so they might have greater concerns."
.
That's why my immediate reaction was that I needed to think about the self-described circumstances of the survey.
.
My personal and professional opinion is you give them a chance to button-up if its an unannounced inspection. Before I go out in public, I check myself and have habits which maintain my appearance. Or you see something wrong with a soldier then you do a spot correction.
.
As for being in a classroom at a Training Conference? YES. You were wrong since it was a previously notified activity. Also you were representing your unit and the military services - which is most like a part of what he was attempting to convey.
Crawling around in the weeds during training - Forgivable but only if we don't have to arm-and-arm search for your missing car keys.
.
Either way I wouldn't beat myself up about it.
Its like calling'em "LTs" instead of "Lieutenants" like I wrote above. The intent was not to offend.
Thanks for the post - Good way to share a teaching point.
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i keep mine unbuttoned. i keep a hanky and a pair of wire strippers in my left back pockit and my wallet, multi screw driver and a phone in my right
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t's ok as long as there not ticklish. hate ticklish people and back pockets haft to be buttoned.
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