Posted on Jul 22, 2015
Uniform of the Day . . . Comfort or Professionalism?
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My question, to the RallyPoint community, is what do you think is best for service members concerning uniforms. Personally, I find the idea of wearing the service uniform, daily, is a horrendous idea birthed from an unknown good idea fairy. Service uniform Fridays are uncomfortable or annoying, but I can understand their necessity in a less war-time driven military. What are your thoughts? Will this help in retention rates or esprit de corps?
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Marines can now vote on switching to service "bravos" or "charlies" as the uniform of the day year-round — or doing away with the desert camouflage utility uniform altogether.
Those are two of the proposals in a new survey launched by the Marine Corps Uniform Board this week, ahead of the board's next meeting in August. The survey, available to active-duty and Reserve Marines through an online portal, includes three uniform changes for Marines to consider, some with sub-recommendations.
Marines' feedback on all these questions will not determine the way ahead on these uniform questions, but may be a major influence on final decisions, said Marine Corps Uniform Board manager Mary Boyt.
"The survey results will be briefed at the formal Uniform Board meeting during the deliberation phase of the process and will be briefed to the commandant and his staff in conjunction with the formal Uniform Board recommendation on the issues," she said.
Here is a look at the changes being considered:
Changing seasonal uniforms
Marines can vote on three separate recommendations affecting the uniform of the day. The first recommendation would require force-level commanders to establish and coordinate seasonal uniform periods based on the climate in their area of operation. Currently, Marines worldwide are on the same seasonal uniform cycle; they wear desert camouflage utilities in the spring and summer, and woodland cammies in the fall and winter, rotating uniforms with the change in daylight saving time.
This seasonal uniform change was mandated in 2008 by the commandant at the time, Gen. James Conway. It came after the Marines completed development of their prized Marine pattern utilities uniform, and was designed to bring uniformity to the Corps' look worldwide. However, this homogeneous approach has long presented a challenge for troops living in widely varied climates around the world.
The second recommendation would remove the Marine Corps combat utility uniform, or cammies, from the seasonal rotation altogether. Rather, commanders would dictate the appropriate cammies uniform on a non-seasonal basis, taking into account climate and training requirements. This would give a commander in Okinawa, Japan, for example, the ability to keep Marines there in woodland cammies year-round while enabling a commander in Twentynine Palms, California, to mandate year-round desert camouflage.
A third option would make the more formal service uniform the uniform of the day, reserving cammies for fieldwork, training or deployments only. If this option is selected, the relevant Marine commander could still make exceptions based on climate, weather and training requirements. Right now, the "bravo" or "charlie" service uniform is only the uniform of the day on Fridays. Service uniform Fridays were established in 2013 by then-Commandant Gen. James Amos in an effort to improve Marines' professional appearance and crack down on overweight troops taking advantage of the looser-fitting utility uniform.
The question of changes to seasonal uniform regulations had been designated for discussion at a Uniform Board meeting this winter, Boyt said. But Commandant Gen. Joseph Dunford's staff requested the issue get an earlier look due to several seasonal uniform change waiver requests that had been submitted from around the fleet this year. This spring, unseasonably chilly weather in the National Capitol Region prompted Headquarters Marine Corps to grant a one-month delay on rolling sleeves up. Marines stationed in the region switched to the desert cammies summer uniform with the rest of the Corps in early March, but were allowed to keep their sleeves down until April 1.
Ditching desert utility cammies
Marines can vote on whether to do away with the requirement to maintain utility uniforms in the desert MARPAT color scheme. If this option is approved, Marines would be required to maintain four woodland MARPAT cammies uniforms instead.
This proposal represents a cost-saving measure for Marines, Boyt said.
Desert MARPAT cammies were added to the Marines' sea bag in 2003, she said, to ensure Marines had two styles of utility uniforms to meet any contingency requirements. But in 2006, Marines began deploying with flame resistant organizational gear as their combat uniform rather than desert MARPAT because of the threat of improvised explosive devices on the ground.
'[Desert cammies] will only be worn in combat in the absence of an IED threat," Boyt said. "Removing the desert MARPAT uniforms from the minimum requirement list will save the Marine Corps money as Marines will no longer be paid to maintain two different styles of utilities."
If this recommendation is adopted, Marines deploying to desert environments would be issued FROG uniforms or desert cammies, said Capt. Dominic Pitrone, a spokesman for Headquarters Marine Corps. Marines deploying to wooded or jungle environments would be able to wear their issued woodland utilities.
A unisex dress blue coat
Marines are asked whether they prefer to keep the current, blazer-like female dress blue coat with a lapel collar, or adopt a prototype redesign that resembles the male version, with a high mandarin collar. Marines can also vote to keep the current coat, but adopt the redesign as a special-assignment item to be issued on a more specific basis. For example, Female Marines in ceremonial units might receive the modified jacket, while others might not.
This question comes after two years of tests and experiments with new looks for female dress blues. Research began with a wear test of a mandarin-collar dress coat for female Marines in ceremonial units at Marine Barracks Washington in July 2013. The testing coincided with the advent of gender-neutral physical standards for male and female Marines and a push to open more combat jobs to women.
“As we’re re-evaluating the role of women in the Marine Corps as a whole,” Barracks spokesman Capt. Jack Norton said at the time, “we’re also re-evaluating the uniforms that are being used.”
The Marine Corps has since expanded the wear test to the entire Washington region. In January and February, officials toured stateside Marine bases to solicit feedback on the new look.
Research on the coat is now complete, Boyt said. A decision on how to adopt the new look will be made during the August Uniform Board meeting.
Historically, Marines' survey responses have played a limited role in the process. Amos pushed out a short-lived year-round "sleeves down" policy despite the objections of 61 percent of Marine respondents in 2011, before reversing his decision in 2013. Marine officials responded quickly, however, to outcry over a 2013 Uniform Board survey question regarding adoption of a rounded "Dan Daly" dress cap in place of the traditional male white dress cover. After the Internet ignited over the prospect of Marines being forced to wear "girly hats," the Corps published a statement reassuring Marines that there was no intention of changing the classic male cover.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/07/22/marine-corps-uniform-board-proposes-radical-new-changes/30468149/
--
Marines can now vote on switching to service "bravos" or "charlies" as the uniform of the day year-round — or doing away with the desert camouflage utility uniform altogether.
Those are two of the proposals in a new survey launched by the Marine Corps Uniform Board this week, ahead of the board's next meeting in August. The survey, available to active-duty and Reserve Marines through an online portal, includes three uniform changes for Marines to consider, some with sub-recommendations.
Marines' feedback on all these questions will not determine the way ahead on these uniform questions, but may be a major influence on final decisions, said Marine Corps Uniform Board manager Mary Boyt.
"The survey results will be briefed at the formal Uniform Board meeting during the deliberation phase of the process and will be briefed to the commandant and his staff in conjunction with the formal Uniform Board recommendation on the issues," she said.
Here is a look at the changes being considered:
Changing seasonal uniforms
Marines can vote on three separate recommendations affecting the uniform of the day. The first recommendation would require force-level commanders to establish and coordinate seasonal uniform periods based on the climate in their area of operation. Currently, Marines worldwide are on the same seasonal uniform cycle; they wear desert camouflage utilities in the spring and summer, and woodland cammies in the fall and winter, rotating uniforms with the change in daylight saving time.
This seasonal uniform change was mandated in 2008 by the commandant at the time, Gen. James Conway. It came after the Marines completed development of their prized Marine pattern utilities uniform, and was designed to bring uniformity to the Corps' look worldwide. However, this homogeneous approach has long presented a challenge for troops living in widely varied climates around the world.
The second recommendation would remove the Marine Corps combat utility uniform, or cammies, from the seasonal rotation altogether. Rather, commanders would dictate the appropriate cammies uniform on a non-seasonal basis, taking into account climate and training requirements. This would give a commander in Okinawa, Japan, for example, the ability to keep Marines there in woodland cammies year-round while enabling a commander in Twentynine Palms, California, to mandate year-round desert camouflage.
A third option would make the more formal service uniform the uniform of the day, reserving cammies for fieldwork, training or deployments only. If this option is selected, the relevant Marine commander could still make exceptions based on climate, weather and training requirements. Right now, the "bravo" or "charlie" service uniform is only the uniform of the day on Fridays. Service uniform Fridays were established in 2013 by then-Commandant Gen. James Amos in an effort to improve Marines' professional appearance and crack down on overweight troops taking advantage of the looser-fitting utility uniform.
The question of changes to seasonal uniform regulations had been designated for discussion at a Uniform Board meeting this winter, Boyt said. But Commandant Gen. Joseph Dunford's staff requested the issue get an earlier look due to several seasonal uniform change waiver requests that had been submitted from around the fleet this year. This spring, unseasonably chilly weather in the National Capitol Region prompted Headquarters Marine Corps to grant a one-month delay on rolling sleeves up. Marines stationed in the region switched to the desert cammies summer uniform with the rest of the Corps in early March, but were allowed to keep their sleeves down until April 1.
Ditching desert utility cammies
Marines can vote on whether to do away with the requirement to maintain utility uniforms in the desert MARPAT color scheme. If this option is approved, Marines would be required to maintain four woodland MARPAT cammies uniforms instead.
This proposal represents a cost-saving measure for Marines, Boyt said.
Desert MARPAT cammies were added to the Marines' sea bag in 2003, she said, to ensure Marines had two styles of utility uniforms to meet any contingency requirements. But in 2006, Marines began deploying with flame resistant organizational gear as their combat uniform rather than desert MARPAT because of the threat of improvised explosive devices on the ground.
'[Desert cammies] will only be worn in combat in the absence of an IED threat," Boyt said. "Removing the desert MARPAT uniforms from the minimum requirement list will save the Marine Corps money as Marines will no longer be paid to maintain two different styles of utilities."
If this recommendation is adopted, Marines deploying to desert environments would be issued FROG uniforms or desert cammies, said Capt. Dominic Pitrone, a spokesman for Headquarters Marine Corps. Marines deploying to wooded or jungle environments would be able to wear their issued woodland utilities.
A unisex dress blue coat
Marines are asked whether they prefer to keep the current, blazer-like female dress blue coat with a lapel collar, or adopt a prototype redesign that resembles the male version, with a high mandarin collar. Marines can also vote to keep the current coat, but adopt the redesign as a special-assignment item to be issued on a more specific basis. For example, Female Marines in ceremonial units might receive the modified jacket, while others might not.
This question comes after two years of tests and experiments with new looks for female dress blues. Research began with a wear test of a mandarin-collar dress coat for female Marines in ceremonial units at Marine Barracks Washington in July 2013. The testing coincided with the advent of gender-neutral physical standards for male and female Marines and a push to open more combat jobs to women.
“As we’re re-evaluating the role of women in the Marine Corps as a whole,” Barracks spokesman Capt. Jack Norton said at the time, “we’re also re-evaluating the uniforms that are being used.”
The Marine Corps has since expanded the wear test to the entire Washington region. In January and February, officials toured stateside Marine bases to solicit feedback on the new look.
Research on the coat is now complete, Boyt said. A decision on how to adopt the new look will be made during the August Uniform Board meeting.
Historically, Marines' survey responses have played a limited role in the process. Amos pushed out a short-lived year-round "sleeves down" policy despite the objections of 61 percent of Marine respondents in 2011, before reversing his decision in 2013. Marine officials responded quickly, however, to outcry over a 2013 Uniform Board survey question regarding adoption of a rounded "Dan Daly" dress cap in place of the traditional male white dress cover. After the Internet ignited over the prospect of Marines being forced to wear "girly hats," the Corps published a statement reassuring Marines that there was no intention of changing the classic male cover.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/2015/07/22/marine-corps-uniform-board-proposes-radical-new-changes/30468149/
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 26
I believe that the uniform of the on Fridays should be Chucks. I will call BS on the uncomfortable concern. That uniform is no more uncomfortable that blue jeans and a button up shirt. This also gives the SNCO's another opportunity to identify and rectify overweight Marines. Semper Fidelis.
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SSgt Terry P.
1stSgt (Join to see) Are the Marines in this photo doing something other than standing in formation?If not what is the second Marine from this end doing?Maybe it is just me can't stand it when things are out of order.
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1stSgt (Join to see)
SSgt Terry P. , if I had to guess he is feeling sorry for himself. Could be a formation or a uniform inspection.
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SSgt Terry P.
1stSgt (Join to see) - must be catching,too,the one second from the other end doesn't look like he is in "dress right dress" either.
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1stSgt (Join to see) 1stSGT is exactly right in what he said about uniform comfort. While I am not a Marine, I hear similar complaints from people about the Navy Service Uniform, which, while I was in Basic Enlisted Submarine School, was the uniform of the day on Tuesdays. I also draw on experience from when I sold men's clothing for the six years prior to enlisting in the Navy. I wore a jacket and tie every day to work and customers would often say, "Don't you hate that they *make* you wear that?" or "I'm a jeans and t-shirt kind of guy, suits are uncomfortable."
My co-workers and I would often laugh about people who would bellyache about wearing dress pants instead of jeans, or a shirt and tie instead of a t-shirt. Listen, If your clothes are uncomfortable, it means they don't fit, plain and simple. There's three solutions to this problem:
1. buy a different size
2. get your clothes tailored
3. (this one may shock people) get in shape.
My co-workers and I would often laugh about people who would bellyache about wearing dress pants instead of jeans, or a shirt and tie instead of a t-shirt. Listen, If your clothes are uncomfortable, it means they don't fit, plain and simple. There's three solutions to this problem:
1. buy a different size
2. get your clothes tailored
3. (this one may shock people) get in shape.
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I'm going to choose per the commander. The commander should choose whatever is best operationally, and will accomplish the mission efficiently.
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