Posted on Oct 6, 2015
Was going away from requiring an NCOES school to become an NCO a bad move?
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A long time ago when I first came into the Army as a young PFC you were required to attend PLDC, or Primary Leadership Development Course, before you could pin on your stripes. Even those of us that were promoted on a waiver while deployed had to attend within a certain timeframe or we would lose our stripes.
I was a fan of this system. I believe that institutional instruction was an asset to professional development. But when the Army moved to the Warrior Leaders Course only being a requirement to attain the promotable status as a SGT we lost ground in professional development. Over time you would have less and less institutionally trained NCOs developing other NCOs. I have found that the SSD's try to make up for this but I rarely find that anyone take these serious. They are more of a check the blocks than the gates to being an NCO.
For those that have been in long enough do believe this affected the NCO corps? Did the Army NCO Corps maintain their professionalism without going to the school house to be an NCO?
I was a fan of this system. I believe that institutional instruction was an asset to professional development. But when the Army moved to the Warrior Leaders Course only being a requirement to attain the promotable status as a SGT we lost ground in professional development. Over time you would have less and less institutionally trained NCOs developing other NCOs. I have found that the SSD's try to make up for this but I rarely find that anyone take these serious. They are more of a check the blocks than the gates to being an NCO.
For those that have been in long enough do believe this affected the NCO corps? Did the Army NCO Corps maintain their professionalism without going to the school house to be an NCO?
Posted in these groups: Non-Commissioned Officer Academy (NCOA)
Basic Leaders Course (BLC formerly WLC PLDC)
Promotions
Basic Leaders Course (BLC formerly WLC PLDC) Promotions
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 41
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Personally I feel that going to an NCOES was a good thing it got you away from the good old boys, and gave someone not in your chain of command a chance for input about your professionalism and ability to function as an NCOES. Just my opinion.
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The required institutional training is fine, my issue is the content of the training does not prepare anyone to be effective at their new jobs.
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I don't think you have to shoot to get a CABa, just be shot at. Same with Medics and CMB.
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I had the same experience. I had to take JEDS for E-4, PLDC before E-5, and then BNCOC, and ANCOC, for E-6 and E-7. I also had plenty of other service schools, College, and APFT, SQT, and SMCT Qualifications to pass, teach, and mentor. all-in-all, a really great hands on NCOES throuout my career. The mentoring aspects were the most critical in my experience, but were really dependant on the NCOs you had mentoring you. Like most of us, we all have stories of really great NCOs and ones that should have turned in thier stripes. As far as the NCOER, I agree with SSG Janell Lord, even in my day, you could go to Clothing and Sales and buy a handbook of bullet points to write an NCOER. I had my fair share of raters that used it instead of writing things for themselves because no one had mentored them and helped develop the skill.
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I have kicked back a few NCOERs for bad bullets. That infuriates me to no end. Just saying that he doesn't mean anything if you don't say why.
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SSG Steven McDanield
Once I became a senior rater, I would sit down with my NCO's and show them how to write meaningful, actionable feedback, not just "He walks on water better than Jesus" bullets that I would see. You can't develop someone if your comments hold no real meaning. The overall effect of using canned bullets was that the only thing an NCOER could do was hurt your career. Everyone expected, and then ignored the "Glowing Bullets", and really only took note of any deficiencies. Like they say, "One Awe Shit, wipes out a thousand atta boys."
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I agree, PLDC prepared me to be a leader. Taught me how to lead, a squad, platoon and help prepare other Soldiers to be better leaders. We also, had the choice to hold back some that were not ready to lead. Doing computer base leadership courses does not take the place of actually having hands on leading, D&C, inspections, respect for senior leaders. Soldiers now have no respect for leadership they roll there eyes argue about what a mission given and it is not my job mentalality. I never ask a Soldier to do a mission without knowing I could do it myself. Even just standing at parade rest for your NCOs, is showing respect. I may sound old school, but i have been flexible and evolved with the new ARMY Strong, but if the basic rules are not applied then evolving forward has a limited affect.
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You are definitely right on target with everything you said. We lost a lot of ground with promoting with attending a school first. Now we have a lot of people wearing stripes that should not be.
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Training an NCO in the schoolhouse was missed. I'm very glad its back. It's tough enough to find one that can conduct business within their MOS much less leading troops. That's my experience between the old school and the new gen
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Not sure what the standard is today, but in my day it was essential, however the answer in my book is they need to go back to no school no strips Be Know Do
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Absolutely! I went through the old way, as you did. We learned about the NCO Corps and honed our leadership skills. I think young NCOs will be missing out on a great experience.
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I don't think it has been feasible. The NCOES was not built to sustain the number of slots needed for this to happen. It's more apparent at the ALC/SLC level. Too many fast tracking, high speed NCOs would be sitting around waiting for a slot. In the meantime, they are last in the pecking order behind those already promoted that need the school still and those with more TIG.
If the Army could handle it from a logistical/personnel stand point then I think it's a must. It will result in better prepared, better trained NCOs. But I fear that with the way things are currently it would hold back the high achievers.
If the Army could handle it from a logistical/personnel stand point then I think it's a must. It will result in better prepared, better trained NCOs. But I fear that with the way things are currently it would hold back the high achievers.
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It was feasible. That is how it used to be. PLDC was a 3 week course. All NCOs had to go to it before we got pinned. But due to the deployments of Iraqi it became too much of a challenge. I believe we could turn WLC into something like it used to be. Or at least require SGT to attend WLC within a certain time frame of getting promoted.
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CPT(P) (Join to see)
I absolutely agree. I want to see this change. The NCO Corp would benefit tremendously. If there is added flexibility, like you stated, then it may be more feasible.
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