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I am in the Army Reserve and this past weekend my unit and I went to the range. While at the range, I was told that one of my AGR E5 NCOs was being very disrespectful and unprofessional towards other NCOs and Officers while he was a range safety. Afterwards, my SFC supply sergeant asked him if he cleaned his weapon and he stated that he was not going to clean his MFing weapon. The SFC brought this to my attention and I said I would handle it. Later on, when I saw him again, I has him put away some items he was carrying and instructed him to bring his weapon while we walked to a secluded area. I had my LT platoon leader come with me. While I was doing this and trying to talk to him, he continuously interrupted me and was not treating me like his senior. I put him at the position of attention then told him to get in the front leaning rest position and he said he wasn't going to effing do that. I said great, let's go see the CSM. The CSM sided with him and said I escalated things too quickly (he said this with my E5 right there). He then said that he hold his AGR Soldiers at a higher standard than just a regular reservist. My brain was boiling... Doesn't take any consideration to my prior active time, my deployment, my rank, my leadership history.
I understand I might have escalated quickly but don't demean me in front my my Soldiers. I was going to have him in the front leaning rest while I calmly talk to him. I just wanted him to be uncomfortable while I explain what professionalism is and what the NCO Creed stands for and that I won't tolerate one of my NCOs disrespecting other NCOs or Officers.
Was I wrong in what I was doing? Am I too old school for today's Army? How could I have handled things differently? Now he probably thinks he is untouchable...
Update: So that individual got promoted and is awaiting transfer. He and I talked about what happened and he apologized for how he reacted. I just left it at that. I understand where I went wrong and if something like that happens again, I will be more prepared with having paperwork ready to escalate.
To give a little more insight on my unit, we are essentially the command part of a larger unit which we oversee. Similar to an HQ or HHC. It's hospital unit and we're the hospital center. Those of you who've been in a hospital unit, you probably understand the unique dynamic. With that being said, my position is basically the 1SG but with a squad sized element. My next higher up is the CSM, which is why I went to him instead of a 1SG.
I understand I might have escalated quickly but don't demean me in front my my Soldiers. I was going to have him in the front leaning rest while I calmly talk to him. I just wanted him to be uncomfortable while I explain what professionalism is and what the NCO Creed stands for and that I won't tolerate one of my NCOs disrespecting other NCOs or Officers.
Was I wrong in what I was doing? Am I too old school for today's Army? How could I have handled things differently? Now he probably thinks he is untouchable...
Update: So that individual got promoted and is awaiting transfer. He and I talked about what happened and he apologized for how he reacted. I just left it at that. I understand where I went wrong and if something like that happens again, I will be more prepared with having paperwork ready to escalate.
To give a little more insight on my unit, we are essentially the command part of a larger unit which we oversee. Similar to an HQ or HHC. It's hospital unit and we're the hospital center. Those of you who've been in a hospital unit, you probably understand the unique dynamic. With that being said, my position is basically the 1SG but with a squad sized element. My next higher up is the CSM, which is why I went to him instead of a 1SG.
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Edited >1 y ago
Posted 3 y ago
Responses: 173
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You want "OLD SCHOOL" ....... I would have walked him to a quiet secluded area and critiqued/counseled him on his attitude and given him the opportunity to explain his actions. As he opened his mouth to explain....I would have punched his lights out followed by him signing a "counseling statement" that he realized his mistakes and would "never do it again" (and then I would tear up the statement) and send him off to clean his weapon (and mine)........JEEZE........What kind of "WOKE ARMY" are our tax $$$$ paying for. These recruits (REGARDLESS of active duty, reserve or national guard) need to learn discipline......not this namby pamby "counseling statement" and "time out" BULLSHIT ! These are similar to the actions we are seeing on college campuses in the past couple weeks.
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I’m gonna go out on a limb and say “all’s well that ends well.” Military Service is a wonderful opportunity to grow and learn. You got a benefit from this. Not saying you were right or wrong. No judgement. Maybe a good “war story” here?
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I probably wouldn’t have had him do pushups, although I can totally understand why you did that. The reason is although he was acting very insubordinate and disrespectful on numerous occasions as leaders we need to make sure our orders are not confrontational or that the SM cannot use them place us in a bad situation. Like others stated having your LT there was a great idea a witness for you and a commissioned officer to support you. I would have inspected the E-5s weapon then wrote a thorough counseling of all the events that transpired. This would be the support you needed to reflect on his NCOER.
I would not have involved the CSM handle things at the lowest level possible. You are a Senior Non Commissioned Officer and do not need to take an unruly E-5 higher up for situations like this.
I would not have involved the CSM handle things at the lowest level possible. You are a Senior Non Commissioned Officer and do not need to take an unruly E-5 higher up for situations like this.
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Was I wrong in what I was doing? No! NCO's/Officers should have handled the issue, with writing up Sgt including office hours on disrespect/failure to follow ARMY regulations, orders.
Am I too old school for today's Army? No! It's falls onto the WOKE bullshit caused by Democratic liberals, military's not democratic by no means.
Command Sergeant Major (CSM) handled the situation poorly, with statement of you escalating the issue, holding AGR Soldiers at a higher standard compared to regular reservist, major problem of being lazy, and unprofessional. Should have went to the 1SG , likely to get situation handled better..
Am I too old school for today's Army? No! It's falls onto the WOKE bullshit caused by Democratic liberals, military's not democratic by no means.
Command Sergeant Major (CSM) handled the situation poorly, with statement of you escalating the issue, holding AGR Soldiers at a higher standard compared to regular reservist, major problem of being lazy, and unprofessional. Should have went to the 1SG , likely to get situation handled better..
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Typical F-up and move up. I've been Reserve, AGR, Active Duty and even Retire Recall. Some Active and AGRs feel they are better than reservist, but we all wear the same uniform and go through same training and even have the opportunity to get deployed the same. During the last couple of wars there were almost as many reservist and national guard on the battle field as AC. When you start treating some soldiers better or different because of their status as AC, AGR or Reservist you diminish the rest of the unit.
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There seems to be a very undisciplined group of people in the military today. This would have never handicapped when I was in the Army ( 1969-1970 ). Are officers or higher ranking NCO's afraid to correct these people, or just don't know any better?
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To me, you tried to cover your a$$ by making sure you had an audience before you talked to him the first time (at the range), If the talk didn't work, I would have had a counseling statement explaining what he did wrong and the consequences of his future actions. If it got to the CSM level, it would have been because his attitude hadn't changed and you were finding out what you next steps could be.. Instead, he is getting a promotion and going to the next unit with the same f-up attitude. As NCOs, our job is to nip the problem in the bud and to remind soldiers of what our expectations are. As an Active Duty Senior NCO myself I understand that the Guard and Reserve may be more lax than AD, but he would have been an entirely new soldier by the time I was finished with him. This attitude does not sync with what we expect. If he does this now, how would he perform under real pressure?
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Praise in public, reprimand in private, don't demean fellow NCOs in front of subordinates, no matter what the ranks involved are, not and SFC in front of a SSG, or a SSG in front of a Sgt. I am so glad I am older. The last conflict I had was, I was giving the pre-range class, safety procedures etc. I was writing on the board, I turned around and a PFC had a bead on me, and was holding it. I was nonchalant, got within range grabbed the weapon, cussed him out and was about to take him out back. He told me he was going to report me, and I said let's go, I will take you to the old man's office. It was in the day when I knew the Sr. Command would have my back. When I was retiring, I saw the erosion of discipline, respect and levels of narcissism occurring in the ranks. I can't even imagine being in a conflict with some of the pukes in now, I imagine, "leave no man behind" is only a suggestion, or a hope, because I don't see selfish individuals sacrificing themselves to get the body of an already dead soldier, with the attitude, "he's already dead, why should I die getting his body" or something of that nature. Not getting that support from your CSM, AND, being corrected in front of a subordinate is doubly disgusting. Good people aren't staying in, the ones getting promoted are getting there too quickly, and I have no idea what they're teaching at the leadership schools now days. It certainly isn't, if you want to be a good leader, you have to be a good follower. I'm sorry that happened to you SSG.
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Please forgive me if I'm reading this post wrong, but last time I checked, you didn't have the option of whether you liked someone or not. ( It sounds like that's what's going on here with this E-5). A strict stern reprimand might be needed here.
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You should have simply ordered him to break down and clean his weapon. And, he seems like a a-hole, when he refused write him up and send it up the chain.
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