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I am in the Army Reserve and this past weekend my unit and I went to the range. While at the range, I was told that one of my AGR E5 NCOs was being very disrespectful and unprofessional towards other NCOs and Officers while he was a range safety. Afterwards, my SFC supply sergeant asked him if he cleaned his weapon and he stated that he was not going to clean his MFing weapon. The SFC brought this to my attention and I said I would handle it. Later on, when I saw him again, I has him put away some items he was carrying and instructed him to bring his weapon while we walked to a secluded area. I had my LT platoon leader come with me. While I was doing this and trying to talk to him, he continuously interrupted me and was not treating me like his senior. I put him at the position of attention then told him to get in the front leaning rest position and he said he wasn't going to effing do that. I said great, let's go see the CSM. The CSM sided with him and said I escalated things too quickly (he said this with my E5 right there). He then said that he hold his AGR Soldiers at a higher standard than just a regular reservist. My brain was boiling... Doesn't take any consideration to my prior active time, my deployment, my rank, my leadership history.
I understand I might have escalated quickly but don't demean me in front my my Soldiers. I was going to have him in the front leaning rest while I calmly talk to him. I just wanted him to be uncomfortable while I explain what professionalism is and what the NCO Creed stands for and that I won't tolerate one of my NCOs disrespecting other NCOs or Officers.
Was I wrong in what I was doing? Am I too old school for today's Army? How could I have handled things differently? Now he probably thinks he is untouchable...
Update: So that individual got promoted and is awaiting transfer. He and I talked about what happened and he apologized for how he reacted. I just left it at that. I understand where I went wrong and if something like that happens again, I will be more prepared with having paperwork ready to escalate.
To give a little more insight on my unit, we are essentially the command part of a larger unit which we oversee. Similar to an HQ or HHC. It's hospital unit and we're the hospital center. Those of you who've been in a hospital unit, you probably understand the unique dynamic. With that being said, my position is basically the 1SG but with a squad sized element. My next higher up is the CSM, which is why I went to him instead of a 1SG.
I understand I might have escalated quickly but don't demean me in front my my Soldiers. I was going to have him in the front leaning rest while I calmly talk to him. I just wanted him to be uncomfortable while I explain what professionalism is and what the NCO Creed stands for and that I won't tolerate one of my NCOs disrespecting other NCOs or Officers.
Was I wrong in what I was doing? Am I too old school for today's Army? How could I have handled things differently? Now he probably thinks he is untouchable...
Update: So that individual got promoted and is awaiting transfer. He and I talked about what happened and he apologized for how he reacted. I just left it at that. I understand where I went wrong and if something like that happens again, I will be more prepared with having paperwork ready to escalate.
To give a little more insight on my unit, we are essentially the command part of a larger unit which we oversee. Similar to an HQ or HHC. It's hospital unit and we're the hospital center. Those of you who've been in a hospital unit, you probably understand the unique dynamic. With that being said, my position is basically the 1SG but with a squad sized element. My next higher up is the CSM, which is why I went to him instead of a 1SG.
Army Reserve Elements
NCOs
Leadership
Career Counselor
Career Advice
Edited 2 y ago
Posted 3 y ago
Responses: 168
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I once wrote up an E3 for not making coffee as part of morning duty change over. It went to CPO, the LT , the XO and finally to captains mast. His refusal cost him E4 and dsm near E2 and brig time.
OBTW - when got out of the Navy he became a Priest. Go figure!
OBTW - when got out of the Navy he became a Priest. Go figure!
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I also was in am Army Reserve hospital Unit and after a deployment I as a MSG had a major disagreement about a situation with a AGR SFC who worked in the Motorpool. This Sgt's Platoon Leader was present and this SFC who was bigger than me closed his office door with his Lt present and attempted to intimidate me by coming very close to me and staring me down. I reported this to our CSM and told her I would like to proceed with am Article 15 and she pretty much didn't support me in this action. I found out later from a different officer that this SFC had been caught red handed a while before filling his POV with fuel at the POL pump and no action was ever taken against him. I'm usually not one to bring race into any situation but all three of these individuals I noted were of a different race than myself and I have to suspect that this may have had something to do with the way this situation and the other situation I noted were handled
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This seems to be someone who needs to be put in their place, this person doesn’t want to be a part of the military it’s time to cut the cord if you don’t this person may get someone killed because when you need this person he or she will not be there for you.
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In this day and age, the pen is mightier than the push up. Great for instilling basic discipline when entering service due to time constraints and such, but once pass the lay person’s entry level and the person is considered a career professional, a different behavioral correction strategy is warranted. What is written will outlast any push up. Future reviews of one’s records don’t mention any push ups, but an articulated report of the incident will paint a clearer picture of the person’s state of mind at the time of the counseling or disciplinary action. Example: GI Joe so and so, I am initiating a report due to a complaint and statements by witnesses of your behavior. Complete your investigation, confer with your immediate superior, advise the offender of the charge and findings, allow for the offender to provide a statement, and execute the appropriate discipline. Appropriate times requires appropriate actions.
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Whenever you're dealing with an insubordinate NCO, putting them in the front-leaning rest will not suffice and will only escalate matters. The only corrective action that works in these situations is having that insubordinate NCO sitting in front of you with you having a counseling form and an eyewitness present (preferably someone of equal rank or higher like the LT who has seen his actions). Also, instead of going to the CSM of your unit (who was an idiot, by the way), use your direct CoC which should have been your 1SG. The counseling statement is a record that can lead to an Article 15 for insubordination and be put in his permanent records, which will be seen at his next promotion board. These tools should or hopefully, recondition that NCO's attitude. Hope this works.
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I'm gonna say this that was AP. S command sergeant major it was all about his ego. It was all about him telling you what to do. He threw the rule books out the window. He threw whatever officer or NCO creed out the window. He went off of his chip on his shoulder. He went off of because I said so. And he was the unprofessional piece of trash. He was works 4 for chewing you out in front of your soldier. When his soldier is the one that dropped the ball, and not only that, his head was so far up as behind that, he didn't realize that that you were prior service, and that you had Your experience, unlike that reservist. Oh whoever the heck that was that don't know nothing. I was a reservist, too. You guys don't do a lot trust? I was a cook. I was there 1 week in a month, 2 weeks a year, and it wasn't rocket science, so that nco was wrong point blank period And no way he should have got promoted, but that's the way the army works.
Again, that command sergeant major garbage and I dealt with garbage leadership like that, while I was in for 11 years, I dealt with trash leadership 5NC OS in 11 years that actually gave a d*** about their soldiers. And actually we'll take a bullet for them. The rest Jaw jacking the rest wolf tickets.The rest egoa on the shoulders. always trying to chew you out. Always trying to get you in trouble. But when you go to family functions, you know exactly who's in charge and why and she'll show up to work all mad.
In short, you did nothing wrong. soup sammich csm.
Again, that command sergeant major garbage and I dealt with garbage leadership like that, while I was in for 11 years, I dealt with trash leadership 5NC OS in 11 years that actually gave a d*** about their soldiers. And actually we'll take a bullet for them. The rest Jaw jacking the rest wolf tickets.The rest egoa on the shoulders. always trying to chew you out. Always trying to get you in trouble. But when you go to family functions, you know exactly who's in charge and why and she'll show up to work all mad.
In short, you did nothing wrong. soup sammich csm.
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The described insubordination is unacceptable. I would have preferred charges. The CSM is completely out of line and needs to be removed of duties pending court-martial
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Well from the complete opposite side of the perspective you did nothing wrong, if anything you were probably too soft on them depending on how badly they were acting on the range.
Ive had every type of leader that exists. I’ve had sgt’s id have taken a bullet for, and I’ve had sgts that I would happily looked the other direction while they were getting killed. I had a 1sgt I’d have followed into hell. I had the wonderful opportunity to spend time with him after he was being reassigned and he was no longer my 1sgt. He said Thomson, I don’t think I have ever had a soldier who got in more trouble of his own making than you. I smiled and said that it was close between me and another man in my unit. He commented that I was strange to him because I never lied and never disrespected him ever, I said no matter how much trouble I ever got in, he never treated me unfairly. I earned every single moment of trouble and payed not one moment more than I deserved. He was fair always and never wavered. 1st Sgt Swaneir I believe was the best leader I’ve ever seen. I only wish that he knew me as other than a screw up.
My point is this, god forbid we are ever so bad that we need the nasty girls or weekend worriers in the real army, but if so, the soldiers under you will keep you safe and those under him will walk over him when he’s hurt.
Ive had every type of leader that exists. I’ve had sgt’s id have taken a bullet for, and I’ve had sgts that I would happily looked the other direction while they were getting killed. I had a 1sgt I’d have followed into hell. I had the wonderful opportunity to spend time with him after he was being reassigned and he was no longer my 1sgt. He said Thomson, I don’t think I have ever had a soldier who got in more trouble of his own making than you. I smiled and said that it was close between me and another man in my unit. He commented that I was strange to him because I never lied and never disrespected him ever, I said no matter how much trouble I ever got in, he never treated me unfairly. I earned every single moment of trouble and payed not one moment more than I deserved. He was fair always and never wavered. 1st Sgt Swaneir I believe was the best leader I’ve ever seen. I only wish that he knew me as other than a screw up.
My point is this, god forbid we are ever so bad that we need the nasty girls or weekend worriers in the real army, but if so, the soldiers under you will keep you safe and those under him will walk over him when he’s hurt.
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Lol, I'm laughing cause as a disabled veteran I have been unburden by what has been. Now I'm burden by the VA healthcare system getting their shit together
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I feel like this NCO should not have been disrespectful to an officer. The CSM should not have sided with the NCO on that. I am glad he apologized to you later. I have seen this before. Usually the leadership walk away and hash it out away from the squad. Tempers flare and people have off days. Situation like this takes judgement so no right or wrong way to deal with it. Lots of cards to play here if this continues.
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