Posted on May 3, 2016
What are the benefits of using the doors for a jump in a C-130 over the ramp?
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I generally see the ramp used at USASFC for jumps, even if jumping from both sides. Conventional units tend to use the doors. I'm wondering what the benefits are?
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 25
There are actually few reasons. I have jumped both ramp and doors. I did a Mass Tac last week. The only time you see a Ramp Blast is with small units such as a SF or LRS Team. When you are going with Mass Tacs you can get more out by using both doors. If you only have 10 seconds of green light you should be able to use both doors and put more than just using the ramp. I have never seen anyone use a Ramp for a Mass Tac. To me it would seem far to dangerous. The location of the JM and the Safety would be an issue. Plus could you imagine if a guy fell down on the ramp. It would create havoc. He has no where to go. While jumping doors you could just pull them to the side and let the rest jump. In addition to all of this I imagine that it would also create a lot more hazards too. Just a bit of turbulance you could lose the cargo handlers in the back.
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SGM Robert King
We rarely had a DZ that was the size of a small country. We jumped on postage stamps with lots of obstacles.
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1LT (Join to see)
82nd seems to dislike using the ramp. At the time I was there the ASOP said the TOW missile teams were supposed to jump from the ramp immediately after the truck dropped, but for unspecified "safety" reasons they just had the truck crew front loaded in the doors.
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SFC (Join to see)
LTC Yinon Weiss - Sir, the anchor cables has to be configured differently than it would be configured using doors. That is why the Assisstant Jumpmaster will watch the Jumpmaster and wait a second before tapping the jumper on the AJ side of the aircraft to exit.
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Higher rate of exit and MORE jumpers.. over the ramp is limited to 40, jump doors you get 64 in peacetime, 76 in combat. Thats is why you see the jump doors used in standard procedure.
Chasing heavy drops (our gun truck) and smaller size element (4 man crew per truck) we would jump ramp.
My small Infantry platoon in Alaska was the only one allowed to request and make ramp jumps the three years I was at Fort Richardson. When I was at Bragg, the only ramp jump I did was proficiency stuff jumping static line with special people (SF mostly) They would need 10 static line jumpers as part of the package that wold take them up to alt for free fall. ... So static line jumpers were many times found from the regular airborne community
Chasing heavy drops (our gun truck) and smaller size element (4 man crew per truck) we would jump ramp.
My small Infantry platoon in Alaska was the only one allowed to request and make ramp jumps the three years I was at Fort Richardson. When I was at Bragg, the only ramp jump I did was proficiency stuff jumping static line with special people (SF mostly) They would need 10 static line jumpers as part of the package that wold take them up to alt for free fall. ... So static line jumpers were many times found from the regular airborne community
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MAJ L. Nicholas Smith
Exactly what I was thinking. It's all about efficiency in order to place as many troopers on the ground in the smallest amount of time. I jumped the 130 many times but never from the ramp.
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SGM Erik Marquez
CW4 Angel C. - Chief
I have no doubt there's a standing policy both in ASOP and DIV policy letter stating just that. I'm sure back in 93 when I was there the same thing existed.
All I can say for sure is it wasn't enforced..lol My Jump log proves that.. Hmmm, wonder what the statutes of limitations is on prosecution for not following a Div Policy letter is.
I have no doubt there's a standing policy both in ASOP and DIV policy letter stating just that. I'm sure back in 93 when I was there the same thing existed.
All I can say for sure is it wasn't enforced..lol My Jump log proves that.. Hmmm, wonder what the statutes of limitations is on prosecution for not following a Div Policy letter is.
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CW4 Angel C.
I think I did my jumps like 99/00 when I was an NCO outside of DIV. I tried jumping like 10 times in two months and all jumps kept getting scratched or birds broke then I was a pay hurt, so a friend that was doing a HALO hooked me up with a tail gate with his unit. Back in 93 I was a PFC/SPC and wouldn't even dare jumping outside of my unit LOL
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Because if Special Forces didn't do things in a special way, they'd just be 'forces'?
Sorry...couldn't resist.
Sorry...couldn't resist.
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Good question. I'm pretty sure the main benefit is the amount of Paratroopers exiting the door. See attached illustration. Tail gate jump you can only use 2 anchor line cables (20 pax each / 40 total) versus 4 (64+ pax) on the door exits. So you can do a mass tact from the doors, but not the ramp. Well at least not an official mass tact. For more info refer to TC 3-21.220. Anyways, I'm not pretending to be a jump guru as I just researched some of this interesting info. I also recommend this this cool and interesting link: http://www.combatreform.org/llparachute.htm
Very Low-Level Military Parachutes
During WWII, American Paratroopers were able to jump at extremely low altitudes due to the T-4/T-7's canopy-and-lines-at-the-same-time opening sequence. The photos below show a French Paratrooper jumping a T-4 or T-7.
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It's been many moons, but I think doors maximize safety and getting max troops out -- I've never jumped more than one anchor line cable off a ramp (3rd SFG) and we took the whole ramp to avoid the d-bags. With doors (82nd), all cables are in play and d-bags are not as big an issue.
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If you use the ramp, no slamming on the side of the plane if you get hung up.
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MSG (Join to see)
LTC Yinon Weiss - I would argue there is nothing conventional about jumping out of a plane that is capable of landing with a parachute packed by someone else. But that's just me and some of the reasons why I'm not Airborne.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SSG Thomas Livingston
Posted 35 minutes ago
If you use the ramp, no slamming on the side of the plane if you get hung up.
LOL, do your job right and you don't get hung up. I found death and dismemberment a great motivator to be physically fit, technically correct and exit properly every jump, as a regular jumper, and as a JumpMaster
Posted 35 minutes ago
If you use the ramp, no slamming on the side of the plane if you get hung up.
LOL, do your job right and you don't get hung up. I found death and dismemberment a great motivator to be physically fit, technically correct and exit properly every jump, as a regular jumper, and as a JumpMaster
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Ramp exits encourage walking out of the aircraft vs jumping up and out. When you simply walk out and fall there is less chance of malfunction due to jumper error. Ramps also lead to people being more aware of their surroundings as many door jumps are night jumps regardless of the time of day because troops have their eyes closed.
I always preferred ramp exits from fixed wing and even rotary aircraft, the view is amazing and CH-47 jumps were my all time favorite. Them Night Stalkers will take you on a hell of a ride and then you just step out into the heavens.
Good topic LTC Yinon Weiss
I always preferred ramp exits from fixed wing and even rotary aircraft, the view is amazing and CH-47 jumps were my all time favorite. Them Night Stalkers will take you on a hell of a ride and then you just step out into the heavens.
Good topic LTC Yinon Weiss
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None. Jumping out of a perfectly good airplane from any door is silly. :D
Of course it is easier to push those of us who feel that way out the ramp than the door.
Of course it is easier to push those of us who feel that way out the ramp than the door.
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MAJ L. Nicholas Smith
Years ago we really did have push men. You were jumping whether you agreed with it or not!
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CW3 (Join to see)
I don't see nothing silly about that, it is part of a profession, and only those who could overcome they fear, will become Airbone.
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USASFC jumps MC6 steerable chutes, so both paratroop doors can't be utilized at the same time. You're choices are jump one door, jump one door and then the other, or ramp. Ramp doesn't require a JM controlling static lines and doesn't require a strong exit. Basically like a Chinook jump.
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Suspended Profile
I combed through the entire thread looking for this reply - it is apparent that everyone is assuming the jumpers were wearing something other than the MC-6. You're spot on...you cannot use both doors simultaneously when jumping the MC-6; therefore, I ALWAYS favor OTR as opposed to door exits.
Suspended Profile
MAJ (Join to see) - Your PJ made a poor decision. You can jump both doors, but not simultaneously, even in an alternating sequence. It's too easy to fall out of sequence and have two paratrooper collide after exiting the plane at the same time. Doesn't matter if it was a C130, C27....although I highly doubt it was a C27...have you ever been on one with both doors open? What a crazy wind vortex that creates. When we started jumping the C27 in 2014 we always exited jumpers from the left door only...because (with it being a new jump platform) having that right door open at the same time was deemed unnecessary.
SFC (Join to see)
I was pretty shocked when I read it too. I actually broke out the TC and the USASOC 350-2 just to verify. Definitely not authorized to mass exit with MC-6, it's a good way to get some people killed.
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MAJ (Join to see)
CPT Andrew Carpenter - Maybe I was wrong and I am just remembering from airborne school back in the day but that was quite a while ago. Dunno
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The only thing I can think of is that putting a large amount of jumpers out quickly is easier to control the output timing using the doors to prevent collision. Jumping a tailgate high performance has honestly never been my favorite thing anyway. Tailgates are great jumps from chinook or casa though.
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CPT (Join to see)
MSG Christopher Chouinard UH-60 is great, if you are the first jumper on your side. Other wise you have to scoot... and the legs straps can move around.. and yeah... I've had a bad experience during the All American Week jump competition with some leg straps moving around haha. Every UH-60 jump after that, I ensured I was the number 1 jumper.
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