Posted on Sep 10, 2016
What are your thoughts on units using the EST to qualify on weapons?
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Here are the Army's thoughts
ALARACT 027/2013 DTG: R 042121Z FEB 13
THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN TRANSMITTED BY USAITA ON BEHALF OF//DAMO-TR/G-37//
SUBJECT: INDIVIDUAL WEAPONS QUALIFICATION USING ENGAGEMENT SKILLS TRAINER (EST) 2000
REF:
A. FM 3-22.9, RIFLE MARKSMANSHIP M16/M4 SERIES WEAPONS (AUG 2008)
B. FM 3-23.35, COMBAT TRAINING WITH PISTOLS, M9 AND M11 (W CHG 4 2008)
C. FM 3-22.68, CREW SERVED WEAPONS (2006)
D. FM 3-22.65, BROWNING MACHINE GUN, CALIBER .50 HB, M2 (W/CHG1 2007)
C. AR 350-1, ARMY TRAINING AND LEADER DEVELOPMENT (AUG 2011)
D. DA PAM 350-38, STANDARDS IN WEAPONS TRAINING (OCT 2012)
1. (U) THE ENGAGEMENT SKILLS TRAINER (EST) 2000 IS NOT AN AUTHORIZED SUBSTITUTE FOR
LIVE-FIRE QUALIFICATION. LIVE-FIRE QUALIFICATION PROCEDURES WILL BE FOLLOWED IAW
FM 3-22.9, FM 3-22.68, FM 3-22.65, FM 3-23.35, AR 350-1 AND DA PAM 350-38 EXCEPT WHERE
OUTLINED BELOW.
2. (U) TRAINING INSTALLATIONS EQUIPPED WITH THE EST 2000 WILL CONDUCT M9 AND M16
CHEMICAL, BIOLOGICAL, RADIOLOGICAL, AND NUCLEAR (CBRN) AND UNASSISTED NIGHT
QUALIFICATIONS USING EST 2000. 10-METER QUALIFICATION FIRE FOR THE M249 AND M240 WILL BE
CONDUCTED IN EST 2000. 10-METER TRAINING FOR THE M2 WILL BE CONDUCTED IN EST 2000.
3. (U) TRAINING INSTALLATIONS WITHOUT THE EST 2000 WILL CONDUCT CBRN AND UNASSISTED
NIGHT QUALIFICATIONS USING BALL AMMUNITION IAW FM 3-22.9 AND FM 3-23.35. 10-METER
QUALIFICATION FIRING FOR THE M249, M240, AND THE M2 WILL BE CONDUCTED WITH BALL
AMMUNITION IAW FM 3-22.68.
4. (U) THE USE OF SIMULATORS (EST 2000) AS A TRAINING TOOL IS ENCOURAGED PRIOR TO
CONDUCTING LIVE FIRE QUALIFICATION. IT DOES NOT, HOWEVER, REPLACE NOR SHOULD IT BE
USED AS AN ALTERNATE FORM OF LIVE FIRE QUALIFICATION.
5. POC FOR DISTRIBUTION AND TECHNICAL CONCERNS IS MR. WILLIE RICE, HQDA DAMO TRA, DSN
222-9052, E-MAIL [login to see] .
6. EXPIRATION DATE FOR THIS MESSAGE IS 14 DECEMBER 2017 UNLESS FORMALLY RESCINDED OR
SUPERSEDED BY OTHER POLICY.
ALARACT 027/2013 DTG: R 042121Z FEB 13
THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN TRANSMITTED BY USAITA ON BEHALF OF//DAMO-TR/G-37//
SUBJECT: INDIVIDUAL WEAPONS QUALIFICATION USING ENGAGEMENT SKILLS TRAINER (EST) 2000
REF:
A. FM 3-22.9, RIFLE MARKSMANSHIP M16/M4 SERIES WEAPONS (AUG 2008)
B. FM 3-23.35, COMBAT TRAINING WITH PISTOLS, M9 AND M11 (W CHG 4 2008)
C. FM 3-22.68, CREW SERVED WEAPONS (2006)
D. FM 3-22.65, BROWNING MACHINE GUN, CALIBER .50 HB, M2 (W/CHG1 2007)
C. AR 350-1, ARMY TRAINING AND LEADER DEVELOPMENT (AUG 2011)
D. DA PAM 350-38, STANDARDS IN WEAPONS TRAINING (OCT 2012)
1. (U) THE ENGAGEMENT SKILLS TRAINER (EST) 2000 IS NOT AN AUTHORIZED SUBSTITUTE FOR
LIVE-FIRE QUALIFICATION. LIVE-FIRE QUALIFICATION PROCEDURES WILL BE FOLLOWED IAW
FM 3-22.9, FM 3-22.68, FM 3-22.65, FM 3-23.35, AR 350-1 AND DA PAM 350-38 EXCEPT WHERE
OUTLINED BELOW.
2. (U) TRAINING INSTALLATIONS EQUIPPED WITH THE EST 2000 WILL CONDUCT M9 AND M16
CHEMICAL, BIOLOGICAL, RADIOLOGICAL, AND NUCLEAR (CBRN) AND UNASSISTED NIGHT
QUALIFICATIONS USING EST 2000. 10-METER QUALIFICATION FIRE FOR THE M249 AND M240 WILL BE
CONDUCTED IN EST 2000. 10-METER TRAINING FOR THE M2 WILL BE CONDUCTED IN EST 2000.
3. (U) TRAINING INSTALLATIONS WITHOUT THE EST 2000 WILL CONDUCT CBRN AND UNASSISTED
NIGHT QUALIFICATIONS USING BALL AMMUNITION IAW FM 3-22.9 AND FM 3-23.35. 10-METER
QUALIFICATION FIRING FOR THE M249, M240, AND THE M2 WILL BE CONDUCTED WITH BALL
AMMUNITION IAW FM 3-22.68.
4. (U) THE USE OF SIMULATORS (EST 2000) AS A TRAINING TOOL IS ENCOURAGED PRIOR TO
CONDUCTING LIVE FIRE QUALIFICATION. IT DOES NOT, HOWEVER, REPLACE NOR SHOULD IT BE
USED AS AN ALTERNATE FORM OF LIVE FIRE QUALIFICATION.
5. POC FOR DISTRIBUTION AND TECHNICAL CONCERNS IS MR. WILLIE RICE, HQDA DAMO TRA, DSN
222-9052, E-MAIL [login to see] .
6. EXPIRATION DATE FOR THIS MESSAGE IS 14 DECEMBER 2017 UNLESS FORMALLY RESCINDED OR
SUPERSEDED BY OTHER POLICY.
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1SG (Join to see)
I've had to explain that alarac/reg (common sense test) to more officers and CSMs than I care to admit.
Too many of them believe that it's perfectly ok to transfer an EST score to a regular M16 scoresheet and sign it as part of a qualification record for promotion/deployment validation etc.
I age ten years in the 5 minutes it takes to have that conversation.
Too many of them believe that it's perfectly ok to transfer an EST score to a regular M16 scoresheet and sign it as part of a qualification record for promotion/deployment validation etc.
I age ten years in the 5 minutes it takes to have that conversation.
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SFC (Join to see)
Which is super. Except it's now the EST 3000 so this alaract is not applicable to the current training system.
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1SG (Join to see)
I hope people understand this post is 6 years old and information provided is well out of date now
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There is no substitute, in my opinion, for the feel of firing a real weapon. Budget restraints have taken a lot of range time away from units and it hurts our readiness as a force.
We will however be the best trained virtual warfare force on the planet.
We will however be the best trained virtual warfare force on the planet.
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6
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My thoughts on it are that its fucking stupid. I've seen guys at the local bar playing "deer hunter" that can shoot expert
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