Posted on Jun 12, 2016
SSG Emergency Action Controller / Ops Nco
335K
5.22K
1.81K
192
192
0
1c7ba633
This is a general question. If you have a soldier who refuses to listen to you, as a non-commissioned officer, do you simply put the incident on paper?

Example given- A soldier has unauthorized sunglasses on in a formation. You tell the soldier to take the sunglasses off. He/she refuses.


On the 4856, do you recommend for UCMJ? I've gone thru 600-20 and cannot find anything regarding this
Avatar feed
Responses: 770
SGT Jason Quarles
0
0
0
I'm a traditionalist, I would use non-judicial punishment, what is called re-training, to instill in this POS what the chain of command means and the importance of following an order from his first line supervisor. I had a soldier who "forgot" to bring his water to a rifle range, after PCC's and PCI's had been conducted, informed the range safety NCO that he had no water which meant I got an ass chewing. We had an intense pt session after the range where he got really exhausted and I did not, and I had him carry a 5 gallon jug of water for a month which he could not use. He never forgot water again. Sometimes you have to assert your authority and remind your subordinates that you aren't mommy and daddy nor is this McDonalds were no doesn't elicit a response.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SGT Motor Transport Operator
0
0
0
You do not put articles in the counseling
That is up to legal
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
LCpl Carl Hemperley
0
0
0
being a Marine, we are taught from day one to obey ALL legal orders. so this should never be an issue. if there is a medical reason for the sunglasses, this should have been brought to your attention before formation, or at the very least, as soon as the order was given. Willful disobediance of a lawful order is always subject to the discretion of the offended party. If you feel the man deserves a chance to explain or a second chance to remove said glasses, so be it. If he is a regular "bird" that tends to try to fly his own way on things, I would say that he needs a lesson taught best by the UCMJ.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSG(P) Ell Pizarek
0
0
0
First of all, destroying a soldiers sun glasses is not going to build any any form of respect or change the behavior of the soldier in question. If he would not remove the glasses, then I would have him step out of ranks and stand behind the formation. Once the platoon is released back to the squad /team leaders, I would deal with the insubordination aspects of the problem. I would employ corrective actions such as inspections, PT, and crappy details that would help him understand that insubordination would not be tolerated. If this doesn't resolve the problem, then you request UCMJ. Without showing that you attempted to resolve the problem thru corrective measures, no commander will read an Article 15. This is how things are handled in the new Army. In the old Army, the members of the squad or platoon, would have simply paid him a visit that night and problem would have been solved.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SGT Tony Clifford
0
0
0
I'm sorry that a SGT even needs to ask this question. As team leader your Joes should know who's boss. Here's the breakdown, if a soldier refuses a lawful order you have two (used to be three options) in order to maintain control of your soldiers. First and the most preferred by higher ups is to write a 4586 recommending an article 15 and begin working on his packet. Then next is to do remedial training. The option that is no longer available is to call him out to the wood line.

In your situation I would think about how I lost control of one of my soldiers. Was I an ineffective leader? Was I underperforming in my tactical and technical skills? Have I not shown my soldiers that I place their needs above my own. SGT, I suggest that you do some soul searching and decide if you're a SGT or a NCO. Trust me there is a difference.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
MSG First Sergeant
0
0
0
First of all there are so many ways to handle this situation....... It is up to us as leaders to be the transactional or transformational leader. It is up to us to keep the Soldiers motivated and want to be there!!!!!! If the Soldier wants to there then there should never be an issue...But here is the real question...... Why didn't the Soldier respect his leader to follow and order and or regulation In the first place? For someone to be that disgruntle at a supervisor really says there is some stuff going on farther than the information provided. Did the troop just get a medical procedure done? dilated or Lasix surgery or even scratched Retina ? (Hurts like a mofo!) What's going on in that soldiers life where he feels he don't need to follow rules, orders and complete disregard to any possible corrective training or punitive action..... Before assuming that you would crush this soldier find out the facts!!!!!!!
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SPC Sheila Lewis
0
0
0
Start the paperwork trail.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSgt Tony Basile
0
0
0
3 days of KP and/or Policing the area usually will 'sell' the guy on obeying orders along with confinement to barracks. There has to be consequences for disobedience in such a casual circumstance. In war, things may change due to the immediate circumstances but outright defiance in formation is a challenge to the leadership and only the drill Sgt can win because he Has to.
(0)
Comment
(0)
SPC Automated Logistical Specialist
SPC (Join to see)
>1 y
Then you got worry who he knows in DC.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SGT Frank Pritchett
0
0
0
Todays Army is much gentler Army and the average Private knows how far he push an NCO. Recording all incidents on the 4156 is only valid with a follow up which means the NCO has to close it out. Enough 4156 shows a history which also means your chain of Command has to support you then you can recommend UCMJ actions, but you have to show a history. Its not like in the 70's when there was wall to wall counseling or in the 80's when an NCO could recommend punishment. NCO's need to take back control and stop running to officers with their complaints NCO's need to support NCO's; such as a good NCODP program where these issues can be aired at the unit level.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSG Cannon Crew Member
0
0
0
600-20 is Command Policy... use 670-1
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close