Posted on Jun 12, 2016
What do you do when a soldier refuses to listen to your directions?
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This is a general question. If you have a soldier who refuses to listen to you, as a non-commissioned officer, do you simply put the incident on paper?
Example given- A soldier has unauthorized sunglasses on in a formation. You tell the soldier to take the sunglasses off. He/she refuses.
On the 4856, do you recommend for UCMJ? I've gone thru 600-20 and cannot find anything regarding this
Example given- A soldier has unauthorized sunglasses on in a formation. You tell the soldier to take the sunglasses off. He/she refuses.
On the 4856, do you recommend for UCMJ? I've gone thru 600-20 and cannot find anything regarding this
SGT
Squad Leader
Discipline
Team Leader
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 770
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Smoke the shit out of that soldier, but don't take it to far. If that fails, then get the Captain to back you on an Article 15. Troops live's depend on listening to NCOs. I once pushed an article 15 through on a soldier who refused an order from my Lt. This new army where soldiers disrespect NCOs is bullshit.
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In my Army I'd take the sunglasses off of his face. I don't know if you can do that now w/o getting an assault charge on you. Hit where it hurts, in the wallet
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The NCO in charge should be specific about all formations and what to wear and what not to wear. if a soldier breaks the rules you tell them to remove the sunglasses, if they refuse you have them fall out and report to your office. Once there inform the soldier that you are writing them up for disrespect to a Non-Commissioned Officer and in the write up mention that wearing sunglasses in uniform without permission will not be tolerated and further instances could result in UCMJ. Make sure they clearly understand the infraction and sign the counseling. Done deal.
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Had a young Airman decide that he didn't have to show up for work on time on my last deployment to Kuwait. His separation had already been approved so any long term paperwork would have done nothing. So I took his failure to report to work on time as a request to extend his work shift. Each time he was late, he worked 2 hours over. It didn't matter to me, because my shift ran over too
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WOW!!! First off i am disappointed in alot of these leaders that say take the glasses off his face and crush them. Did the soldier just get PRK/LASIK? was that even asked? The profile for that is 365day for sunglasses and yes even in formation. Now here even the bigger issue I have seen an officer say UCMJ him and have him lose rank are you serious? I am 100% sure there are worse things that are going on in your trp/company/btry then someone thats wearing sunglasses in formation and it has been swept under the rug. Now for the NCO that asked this question. When the soldier said NO what did you do? run the the computer and ask this question? If it was me I would have pulled this soldier out of formation and had a talk and figure out why hes wearing the glasses there has to be a reason. If it a bullshit reason have him take them off if not straight to the leadership office and 4856 him. This is a new army and you have to change your leadership style along with the army changes or your just gonna get messed with. You cant smoke them so write them up
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At that point in time as soon as he refused to remove his sunglasses every E5 and E4 should have made drill instructors look like Girl Scouts!
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Per 670-1 sunglasses have to be black with no reflective lens, Co has the final call. As of 2014?, 670-1 was punitive. What's the problem?
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One problem I saw when I was on active duty and probably even more in Reserve component was the E5 was typically an E4 yesterday. He was one of the guys yesterday and today he's got a little more rank. It's a setup for failure. Newly minted E5s should move, at least to a new company, ideally a new battalion or duty station. It's too easy for the junior enlisted and the newly minted NCO to fall back into old habits. That E5 is still going to want to hang out with his buddies on Saturday night. Wrong answer - he needs to be checking on his troops or buildng relationships with his new NCO buds.
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SSG Grant Hansen
In the Guard and Reserve, there is often no way for the new E-5 to move to a new unit since a company in the same Bn might be hundreds of miles away, so that is not really a solution. You also have the problem of people in the unit being related to each other either by blood or by marriage. Or they might have known each other since they were in pre-school. It makes for a very different atmosphere than the active military, to say the least.
The best way to deal with the new E-5 problem is to move him to a different platoon and have the senior NCO's or PLt Ldr give him the directions for his team in their presence, typically while in formation. Then the E-5 has the additional authority of an E-6, E-7 or a 2nd Lt to back him up. It won't take long for the new E-5 to have his team following his orders and he will be much more comfortable in his leadership position.
As for the socializing, how do you not socialize with guys you've known since you were in grade school or they married your sister or cousin? Learn how to draw a line between play time and work time and get on with life.
The best way to deal with the new E-5 problem is to move him to a different platoon and have the senior NCO's or PLt Ldr give him the directions for his team in their presence, typically while in formation. Then the E-5 has the additional authority of an E-6, E-7 or a 2nd Lt to back him up. It won't take long for the new E-5 to have his team following his orders and he will be much more comfortable in his leadership position.
As for the socializing, how do you not socialize with guys you've known since you were in grade school or they married your sister or cousin? Learn how to draw a line between play time and work time and get on with life.
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Sgt Joseph Baker
Even in the Guard or Reserve, you are not their pal when you are their superior. Some people can manage that away from work, some can't. But I totally agree with your advice of having the new Sgt. receive general directions in front of the platoon, at least early on. That way they see your position is about carrying out the orders from above, and they are less likely to question them. Over time that Sgt's own command presence will lessen the need for that direct backup.
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first off i would not take them off and step on them; that gives not only the SM but the U.S. Citizens a bad taste in their mouth about the Army and it's leaders. If he or she refuses to take them off, let them go and talk to them after formation via counseling them, letting them know what the AR says and inform them of what will happen if this occurs again. Do you give someone an Article 15 for their hair not to standard? NO - you make an on the spot correction and drive on - you don't give them an article 15 and most of the time, they don't get counseled for it either unless it continues to be a habit. It's solely at the discretion of the CDR but mose CDRs would expect at least one counseling to had been done as a warning before they push for UCMJ action.
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Problem number 1- You have a Private that won't/doesn't respect you or your authority. Back when I was a young Sergeant, there was no question about it, a little wall to wall counseling and everything was fine. Hint- always have another NCO with you so you can always confirm that the private attacked you and you were defending yourself.
Oh well, a new Army, write the soldier up and get your chain of command involved. Art 15 his young ass or PT the living shit out of him if that is all that is required.
Problem number 2- You are a Sergeant in the United States Army and you have to ask a question like this on social media.
Oh well, a new Army, write the soldier up and get your chain of command involved. Art 15 his young ass or PT the living shit out of him if that is all that is required.
Problem number 2- You are a Sergeant in the United States Army and you have to ask a question like this on social media.
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Sgt Lew Dunham
SFC Terry Murphy, there is no problem #2. The question was exploratory in nature and has been experienced by almost all of us.
I find it very interesting to read what the other members feel about the issue and also to read some of the first hand stories.
Carry on .... Airborne!
I find it very interesting to read what the other members feel about the issue and also to read some of the first hand stories.
Carry on .... Airborne!
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