Posted on Jun 12, 2016
SSG Emergency Action Controller / Ops Nco
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This is a general question. If you have a soldier who refuses to listen to you, as a non-commissioned officer, do you simply put the incident on paper?

Example given- A soldier has unauthorized sunglasses on in a formation. You tell the soldier to take the sunglasses off. He/she refuses.


On the 4856, do you recommend for UCMJ? I've gone thru 600-20 and cannot find anything regarding this
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Responses: 770
SSgt Robert LeBlanc
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I have never felt with a soldier, only Marines: Sorry They are much less of a problem that the Army I'm sure. I would think once (at least) once you reach E-4, you must take a leadership course. Doesn't the Army do the same thing.

Now back in the day the Commanding Officer very rarely felt with any problems with the troops. It was taken care of should I say with in.. Very effective, but today not so much.
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SSgt Military Police
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It's a violation of 670-1. Art. 92. Failure to obey a lawful order and Art 91, disrespect of a non commissioned officer.
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SSgt Military Police
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Justhe make sure there weren't medical reasons they were wearing them for.
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MSgt Retiree
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The order to remove the unauthorized eye wear in formation was a lawful order. This soldier should have received Article 15 punishment for the violation of UCMJ Articles 91 & 92. This said, I'm concerned about the validity of the order to destroy personal property.
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CSM Robert Hanks
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Get your PSG and LT on board and have him ordered to report to staff duty every one to two hours over a weekend in a different uniform, which he gets appearing in the correct uniform. Any wrong and he has to go and correct it before moving onto his break. It will require work on your part, it will correct the defect. Used it and called the school of the soldier and no more uniform issue. Plus side, he was ordered by the C of C to be there.
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Cpl Jim Tubridy
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I once chose a physical confrontation with an insubordinate PFC. A great deal of correction and disciplinary action had preceded the incident. Two things came of it: 1. The idiot stopped being insubordinate, 2. I was publicly -but mildly- reprimanded by the Gunny and privately congratulated for setting him straight FINALLY. But none of his insubordination took place during formation. Maybe it's a USMC thing, but formation seemed to be the last place a Marine would consider being insubordinate.
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PO1 Rodney Bracey
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By the book on paper or publicly make an example of the Soldier
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LTC Thomas Tennant
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Back in the 1970's ... my NCO's gave me "wall to wall" counseling. I think it work... ;-)
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SGM(P) Infantryman
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First, Non-commissioned officers has no dash. It's Noncommissioned Officer.
Second, as long as you give an order that is not illegal, immoral, or unethical, you can request non-judicial punishment for insubordination.
Third, be sure you know the regulation on sunglasses. Is it your opinion on faddish or unauthorized?
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SP6 John Mac Donald
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Failure to follow a lawful order
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SGT John Romanishan
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OK ... keep your cool and tell the soldier to remove them. Do this 3 times. After the third time, inform the soldier that you will be putting them on paper for being out of uniform and refusing to make the necessary correction, and for open defiance of a directive set forth by a non-commissioned officer.

Now, this is how you get it to stick:
Research what article(s) in the UCMJ address open defiance, insubordination, disrespect, and refusal to obey a superior, and on your 4856 in the section where you right up the violation, go to the bottom of the block and type in the articles that apply and what they state - word for word.

This way, you get the little peckerhead for a UCMJ violation and the chain of command can't come back and say that it was just a personal disagreement. Get his ass Sarge!
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