Posted on Jun 12, 2016
What do you do when a soldier refuses to listen to your directions?
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This is a general question. If you have a soldier who refuses to listen to you, as a non-commissioned officer, do you simply put the incident on paper?
Example given- A soldier has unauthorized sunglasses on in a formation. You tell the soldier to take the sunglasses off. He/she refuses.
On the 4856, do you recommend for UCMJ? I've gone thru 600-20 and cannot find anything regarding this
Example given- A soldier has unauthorized sunglasses on in a formation. You tell the soldier to take the sunglasses off. He/she refuses.
On the 4856, do you recommend for UCMJ? I've gone thru 600-20 and cannot find anything regarding this
SGT
Squad Leader
Discipline
Team Leader
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 770
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I had an issue with a troop a few years back when minot, nd flooded. We were going to fill sad bags to help control the massive flow of water when he asked why we had to do it. I told him because we need to help our neighbors and it's a good cause. He then said "well sir, think about this. I go down and help, but while I am there I "accidently" twist my ankle. Now I'm not able to work and you are down a body for posting. I think it best if I don't go" I replied "ok let's think. You go down and help your neighbors and get hurt. You get some well deserved time off, a pat on the back for your assistance and warm fussiest for doing a good thing. Now let's flip this. You go down and pretend to get hurt in and effort to either get back at me or avoid work and I will slap you with every UCMJ charge they will allow me to charge you with and you will have me breathing down your neck every second after that until I am rid of you." Guess who didn't get hurt filling sand bags...
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There is something called a da form 4856 with a recommendation for UCMJ. Disobeying a lawful order. But IF the soldier had them on because of a profile after eye surgery, then you should've known.
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Article 91, and 92, disobeying a lawfull order, dissrespecting a non commissioned officer. That can be a career ender if worded right
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Cpl Benjamin Long
It's not a matter of wording... It is a matter of conviction... If you take those to the court Martial and the SM wins, you are back to square one... You need a good unit lawyer...
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What you do is get your fellow nco s to work with u. You write a 4856 with corrective training then another nco does the same . You can have as many nco s write a 4856 as u like. We really can not recommend UCMJ but we can make the Soldier wish he or she had listened.
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Everyone tries to be nice and says to custom tailor a counseling to him, but that's the kind of attitude that gets people killed when we go to war. You make him push until his eyeballs bleed so he learns then rather than in battle by getting his buddies killed. If you allow this from your soldiers and he gets people killed or injured that's on you for not correcting it
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When I first joined, a little fan room counceling.. now just write them up, and send them to see the old man via the Chiefs and XO..
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sorry for coming off so rude but you are questioning what to do with a soldier that dis-obeys a direct order from an NCO & 2ndly thinks its okay to wear shades in formation. YOU ARE A NCO ARE YOU NOT?! YOU ARE FAILING TO DO YOUR JOB, CORRECT HIM/HER ON THE SPOT AND GROW A BACK BONE, I WOULD SUGGEST YOU DO THIS IN FRONT OF OTHERS B/C YOU'RE COMING OFF AS WEAK, CORRECT HIS PROBLEM & CORRECT YOUR OWN PROBLEM IMMEDIATELY IDC IF ITS THROUGH TOUGH LOVE AND/OR PAPERWORK JUST CORRECT THIS.
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Article 134: conduct prejudicial to good order. Easy as pie to list. Have multiple counseling statements or the action so egregious that it requires immediate attention for a NJP
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Cpl Benjamin Long
still have to convict... and if the SM refuses NJP he may have better luck in the Court Martial
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SSG (Join to see)
Long, not really, the GOVT just has to prove lawful order given- SM refused said order. And if he has a pattern of conduct, he's sunk. I've seen it at Stewart. It just has to have documentation. Art 134 is the general "catch all" article. Or they can chain them. They would do that to BN Boys at HAAF when they proved more trouble than worth. Especially if they had police contact.
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