Posted on Jun 12, 2016
What do you do when a soldier refuses to listen to your directions?
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This is a general question. If you have a soldier who refuses to listen to you, as a non-commissioned officer, do you simply put the incident on paper?
Example given- A soldier has unauthorized sunglasses on in a formation. You tell the soldier to take the sunglasses off. He/she refuses.
On the 4856, do you recommend for UCMJ? I've gone thru 600-20 and cannot find anything regarding this
Example given- A soldier has unauthorized sunglasses on in a formation. You tell the soldier to take the sunglasses off. He/she refuses.
On the 4856, do you recommend for UCMJ? I've gone thru 600-20 and cannot find anything regarding this
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 770
Love the anserws I've seen unless there is a medical reason point blank glasses coming off in formation. I will not allow a Soldier to disrespect the commands formation with such BS and every NCO in that formation should be on the same page with that.
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Remove said soldier from formation. Inform soldier that they may re-enter formation when they are in the proper uniform. Until then, they will be considered AWOL.
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Suspended Profile
I think you've gotten the right answers.
Those sun glasses are going to get very expensive if you do the right things with the right amount of paperwork. Was that something the soldier really wanted to lose rank or pay over, while incurring extra duty?
What pains me is that "back in my day," when I first came in the service, it wasn't a matter of fearing my NCOs, it was that I respected them and cared that I was a reflection of their leadership. If this scenario is real, it's depressing that we've come to this. But there's always going to be that one soldier that presents some kind of leadership challenge...
Those sun glasses are going to get very expensive if you do the right things with the right amount of paperwork. Was that something the soldier really wanted to lose rank or pay over, while incurring extra duty?
What pains me is that "back in my day," when I first came in the service, it wasn't a matter of fearing my NCOs, it was that I respected them and cared that I was a reflection of their leadership. If this scenario is real, it's depressing that we've come to this. But there's always going to be that one soldier that presents some kind of leadership challenge...
Here's the route I would take:
1. Start with verbal counseling.
2. If that doesn't work, then give him/her written counseling and be sure to include the UCMJ article that he/she is violating.
3. If that still doesn't change things, then put him/her on report and pursue Article 15 punishment. Be sure to have all documentation ready.
The bottom line is that you CANNOT be afraid to hold your people accountable for their actions. Most importantly, keep your chain of command informed about what you're doing and why.
1. Start with verbal counseling.
2. If that doesn't work, then give him/her written counseling and be sure to include the UCMJ article that he/she is violating.
3. If that still doesn't change things, then put him/her on report and pursue Article 15 punishment. Be sure to have all documentation ready.
The bottom line is that you CANNOT be afraid to hold your people accountable for their actions. Most importantly, keep your chain of command informed about what you're doing and why.
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SSG (Join to see) Hope you got enough good responses to give you some insight and guidance into how to handle such an incident at your end. Each person being different of course. Other threads along this line include spot correcting a uniform violation noted in a public place, such as off base, esp by a more senior person. A lot of good responses to that one. Hope you are not faced with such a situation too many times in yr career.
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Take them off or show valid medical reason to be allowed to wear them. PERIOD. Refuse, run it up the flagpole.
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Remember in full metal jacket when DI Hartman found Private Leonard Lawrence/ Gomer Pyle's doughnut in his footlocker. Gunny punished the platoon and the platoon punished him
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When I was in the Navy, thirty years ago, something like this would have sent the offender to non-judicial punishment (what we called, "Captain's Mast"). There, the Captain of the ship would determine the circumstances and appropriate response. Punishment could range from a few hours of extra duty to confinement to the brig on bread and water for a few days and reduction in rank, maybe some financial penalty.
I'm guessing that the Army doesn't do things that way?
I'm guessing that the Army doesn't do things that way?
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I had only 1 case of that in my career when I had an E4 report for 2nd shift (on a Sunday) late by more than 30 minutes, in a uniform that looked like it had been slept in and wearing yes, tennis shoes. I instructed him to go back to his billet and get into a neat and clean uniform and correct foot wear and report back to duty within the hour. He refused, and then I called over the assistant flight chief and repeated my directions and he again refused. I then picked up the phone and called the senior command post officer on duty explained the situation to the senior officer and within minutes there was an E9 at the door along with a security policeman. I then requested the individual be escorted to the medical facility for a urine test as instructed in the OI's and also directed those who witnessed the exchange to make a written statement to what they had observed during the exchange. The next duty day after conversing with the Mission Sup and OIC, I stated I would press charges and did so. Why, in short this was a detached outfit and too many of the younger troops thought they were not really in the AF in addition to partying with the OIC on occasions. Discipline was lax to the point of NCO's being handcuffed and I stated as such and told them that by giving this person a pass would just handcuff the other flight chiefs even more. As it turned out the troop was already on the control roster for insubordination to a commissioned officer and was only allowed to PCS to this location because it had been a remote assignment. Needless to say I was shit as far as the OIC was concerned but a hero to the other Flight Chiefs.
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SSG (Join to see), If I was in your boots I would consult with your Staff NCO and get recommendations from him/her on how you should proceed with this Shit Bird or flat out tell your Staff NCO you recommend the Shit Bird get a Page 11( which will always include 1st charge Disobeying a Direct order from and NCO, and since he/she is out of Regs 2nd Charge the Violation of The Uniform regulation he/she has violated and I'm sure there are more that could or would be added if your Staff NCO's and O.I.C. agree with you. There is never just one Violation on a Disciplinary Action in the Military. Back in 91-95 when I was in. Crushing sunglasses would of been the only thing needed. (I.E. Back then Nipple Rings were the thing for kids to get. in my section we had 3 Marines get them and Our Section Staff NCO heard about it, so he and the O.I.C. got us in formation and proceeded to state to all of us Nipple Rings were not allowed. They then walked down the lines of our formation patting us on our chests at the nipple area and since the Marines had just gotten the rings done the area was tender. When one flinched the O.I.C. felt for the ring, grabbed it through the Blouse and pulled it off). In this era of the Military and during this "down sizing Period" I wouldn't recommend it. The "Shit Bird" would probably cry to your O.I.C and Mommy. The next thing you know The B.G.W. comes sneaking up behind you.
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