Posted on Feb 7, 2015
1SG David Lopez
235K
1.43K
750
93
89
4
635586630760396023 arm ranger school women 1
Myself and hundreds of other Retired Rangers are tired of all this nonsense of women attending Ranger School. Why is the Army leadership encouraging special preference to attend a premier infantry and leadership school. It is a hard journey for qualified Male Infantrymen to compete for and get an extremely limited slot to attend the Ranger Course. Many of Rangers had to prove themselves to be hardened Infantry Sergeants in order to even be considered to attend the local Pre-Ranger Course, before even thinking of attending The Ranger Course. Normally an Infantry Company and/or Battalion could only send "one" representative soldier to the Pre-Ranger Course (per course). Infantry Soldiers competed amongst each other to get that slot. The 21-day Pre-Ranger Course, was definitely tough as or tougher than Ranger School itself, was hell to get through. And even after passing, was not a guaranteed slot to attend The Ranger Course due to budget, deployment, and training issues for the unit (not the individual soldier). If you did not get the opportunity to attend The Ranger Course within six months, well it was a requirement to attend the local Division 21-day Pre-Ranger (assessment) Course again. Once again, the male soldier had to pass all standards in order to be recommended to attend The Ranger Course. The Ranger Course had the toughest standards. To begin day one of the Ranger Course, during the APFT, the Ranger Instructor (RI) would not allow you to pass the push up or sit up event the first time. Every Male Ranger Student failed the push up event and had to perform the push up event a second time (five to ten minutes later) to Standard! My first attempt at the push up event, we had to complete at least 62 push ups. The RI was counting, 59, 60, 61, 61, 61... and so on. We were warned that we could not stop during the two minute event or else we would be considered a failure at this event. So I kept knocking out the push ups and asked the RI what it was that I was doing wrong. He answered with, shut up Ranger and keep knocking them (push ups) out or you will fail. I kept my mouth shut and knocked out approximately 120 push ups. The RI failed me. I got back in line and had the same RI grade my push ups again about ten minutes later. 59, 60, 61, 61, 61, once again I asked what it was I was doing wrong while I cranked out those push ups, and once again the RI stated shut up Ranger and keep knocking them out or else you will fail. That was the first moments of Ranger School and every standard was just as tough. If you were just there to earn your Tab, you were surely going to drop out of the course. But if you were a fully prepared Infantry Stud with the attitude that you attended the Ranger Course to test yourself and understood that you were going to have to push beyond all personal limitations in order to merely make it through the relentless day of Ranger Training. The one thing I really appreciated about Ranger School is that the Standards were set so high, every Infantry Soldier knew it was the very best training and test that any soldier can volunteer for. When finished, with an average of one hour of sleep per day, moving with heavy (very heavy) loads about 10 to 25 kilometers per day, performing tactical maneuvers, and being graded in leadership positions. It was far more harsh than I ever expected, every bit the hardest single accomplishment as far as physical and mental exhaustion in a training environment is concerned. Even for the most hardened and gruesome Infantryman. Ranger School was no joke. I'm not thinking it is at all a place for females. There is no way possible to keep the standards the same. We were not taken back to the rear with the gear to shower when we smelled. That is what Infantrymen do. It is dirty and frankly stinky, to say the least. I eventually became an RI in the Desert Phase and then later in my career a Senior Ranger Instructor in the Mountain Phase. It was a humbling experience serving with top notch soldiers / world class athlete Rangers. To say the least it was an Honor serving with the Ranger Training Brigade and maintain the standards. Let us not lose that, the standards. Let us not add the nonsense of preferential treatment. The RI's were hard as nails but fair. Let us not give away the farm to break the glass ceiling. You will rarely hear any news of Rangers in action, it is a quiet professional tight knit unit that prides itself on operational security. I can see no way to not change the standards once women attend the Ranger Course. This course will become a political agenda which will cause the truly dedicated Ranger Instructors to lose their jobs as RI's as we once knew it. Is it too late to turn back? Let the nonsense begin, female issues, separate but same, political agenda, media scrutiny, RI unfairness, sexual harassment, preferential treatment, male students No-Go's due to (female) not performing to standards during patrols... The list can go on, just ask any RI that has served a full term as an Ranger Instructor. Let us not forget the original intent for this course is to train men to lead soldiers into combat. When we give these limited (Ranger School) slots to female soldiers/officers, then we take away from the Infantryman, the soldiers themselves, and the Infantry Units. Let us not take this away.

 

 

Retired Ranger 1SG David D. Lopez

Paso Robles, CA
Avatar feed
Responses: 240
Sgt E5Marty35 .
1
1
0
Don't know why this is in the news...I WAS married to a woman that claimed she was a Ranger back in 1993, and served in Somalia. Captain bars on the collar, and Ranger tab on the shoulder, all captured in a nice photo. She wouldn't have lied to me would she???? Still wonder what happened to the photo, and why she could never find her Military records, or DD214.
(1)
Comment
(0)
SPC Luis Mendez
SPC Luis Mendez
>1 y
LOL, that's a good one!!

Both Male and Female, military or not have penchants for telling Tall tales. Add to that the current Enamoring and Fascination with all things Military promoted by the DoD and DRAFT Dodgers Career Politicians thru the Media and paid for by the Military Industrial Complex and there you have it.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SPC John Decker
1
1
0
Women should be required to meet the same standards that men have t meet. I don't care what job they're trying to get.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
CPL Rifleman
1
1
0
my pg-13 answer is make the standards fucking equal and give them the green light. If a woman can Rock and shoot and move and communicate just as well, then why not? the other side of that is my R rated xxx version answer which is you would probably have to have female only infantry units because that's what other countries militaries have done successfully but overall you would have an increase in sexual assault and STDs and pregnancy in the US Armed Forces. Pretty sure this is why the policy hasn't gone through yet because it is inevitable. Men and women in the field even training as two separate units are going to intermingle and it's going to go to shit.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SMSgt Todd Wagendorf
1
1
0
If a woman want's to be a Ranger and live up to everything that goes with the title, than so be it. Word of caution though, and this might be getting deep. When does a woman stop being a woman, when does a man stop treating a woman as a woman? I have three daughters and I teach them to be who they want to be, but don't forget that a mans job is to care for and honor you for who you are. Am I rambling, or is any of this making sense?
(1)
Comment
(0)
SMSgt Todd Wagendorf
SMSgt Todd Wagendorf
11 y
That is kind of what I am getting at SrA Tommy. Let me go a step further and show a little of my age here. When does not opening doors for women become acceptable, when is it okay to throw a woman in front of a bullet instead of you taking it? Does this kind of help where I am going with this?
(0)
Reply
(0)
SMSgt Todd Wagendorf
SMSgt Todd Wagendorf
11 y
Guess I am just a bit old fashioned...
(0)
Reply
(0)
SMSgt Todd Wagendorf
SMSgt Todd Wagendorf
11 y
Now you got it Airmen, I like the rope analogy...
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
TSgt Materiel Management
1
1
0
Edited 11 y ago
I fully respect and support females being able to attend Ranger school. Guys stop bashing the females. There are countless females who can out-performed some of our male soldiers in the APFT. So guys allow the females to try their capabilities in the Elite Ranger School. I once saw a female Senior Drill Sergeant who knocks out 75 push-ups at a go at Ft Lee VA...outperformed 80% of male trainees. So guys give our females heroes thumbs up by support them 100%.
(1)
Comment
(0)
1SG David Lopez
1SG David Lopez
11 y
We are'nt bashing females. We do not want the standards changed to accomodate any person. But I beg to find out exactly, why are there Female Observers planned to monitor Ranger Training when females participate? Senior NCO's and Officers that will monitor ??? Will they question the RI when he gives a No-Go to a female student? Is the monitor going to speak on the female students behalf should she get peered out? Is the Ranger Training Battalion's senior leadership on vacation? Why do we all of a sudden have female monitors? I would hate to see a female NCO try to pull rank on the RI in charge. Anyhow, why are we ALREADY changing standards? I can tell you straight up, it sounds to me like we do not trust the RI's and the RTB chain of command. RS is harsh and miserable, it's designed to put pressure on students. I respect the females who are teaching us that they do not want the standards changed. Let RS be RS. I know that this is a newer - kinder - gentler military, you may think that cursing is unprofessional; RI's curse. Will that change so that feelings do not get hurt?
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SGT Squad Leader
1
1
0
I look at all these posts and i dont think these people get it. This is not equal oppertunity this is not fairness. The ranger tab is not some bling that you put in you shadow box or hang in your office to say look how good i am it is a sign to your men that says you have had the besttraining the army can give an infantryman and they can depend on you. Sending non infantrymen is a waste of resources so if you are going to send non infantrymen you have to have a better reason then it is the fair thing to do because that doesnt matter. Fair is not important always remember the most important thing ..... Killing the enemy with such effectivness that the dead haj you just killed friends cannot sleep from fear of the infantryman that hunts them. Women and all the other pogs can go ti rangerschool when there are no more infantryman waiting to have the oppertunity....... I guess cav guys can go too
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SPC Larry Buck
1
1
0
1ST Lopez , forgive my chiming in, I'm not qualified for eather Rangers or be a Woman...
But I would love them to atleast try, cause if they make it that's a victory.. On other hand are all recruits american and true? I've watched foreign nationals walk into overseas offices to join.. Are they true? They could be "isis" gonna blow up the transport plane y'all on! Who do you want as your Battle Buddy now!!?
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SFC Benjamin Parsons
1
1
0
There are unquestionably women who can take the heat. Some even likely to outperform some of the males.
How much are we gonna spend in both time and money to find those few?
And what real role will they fill for all the effort?
A costly exercise in Political Correctness.
I served with several female soldiers during one fairly long assignment and came away impressed and with a wholly changed attitude.
But this is too much and fiscally dumb.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSG Michael Velez
1
1
0
I'm old(er) and my issue with females in the military came down to standards: female's were lower than the men's. If the the standards were the same across the board, I wouldn't have any problems with a woman in a combat MOS.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SGT Brian Gibbs
1
1
0
Honesty. I welcome it. It is supposed to be an equal right country and if woman have the courage to join, they should have the same benefits and opportunities that every soldier should. With my experience in the Army it was divided. Female soldiers and Male soldiers were viewed differently by the higher chain of command. But I on the other hand treated my female soldiers the same way I treated my mail soldiers. I pushed them the same and commended them the same. In my eyes they are all soldiers and should be treated as such.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close