Posted on Feb 7, 2015
1SG David Lopez
235K
1.43K
750
93
89
4
635586630760396023 arm ranger school women 1
Myself and hundreds of other Retired Rangers are tired of all this nonsense of women attending Ranger School. Why is the Army leadership encouraging special preference to attend a premier infantry and leadership school. It is a hard journey for qualified Male Infantrymen to compete for and get an extremely limited slot to attend the Ranger Course. Many of Rangers had to prove themselves to be hardened Infantry Sergeants in order to even be considered to attend the local Pre-Ranger Course, before even thinking of attending The Ranger Course. Normally an Infantry Company and/or Battalion could only send "one" representative soldier to the Pre-Ranger Course (per course). Infantry Soldiers competed amongst each other to get that slot. The 21-day Pre-Ranger Course, was definitely tough as or tougher than Ranger School itself, was hell to get through. And even after passing, was not a guaranteed slot to attend The Ranger Course due to budget, deployment, and training issues for the unit (not the individual soldier). If you did not get the opportunity to attend The Ranger Course within six months, well it was a requirement to attend the local Division 21-day Pre-Ranger (assessment) Course again. Once again, the male soldier had to pass all standards in order to be recommended to attend The Ranger Course. The Ranger Course had the toughest standards. To begin day one of the Ranger Course, during the APFT, the Ranger Instructor (RI) would not allow you to pass the push up or sit up event the first time. Every Male Ranger Student failed the push up event and had to perform the push up event a second time (five to ten minutes later) to Standard! My first attempt at the push up event, we had to complete at least 62 push ups. The RI was counting, 59, 60, 61, 61, 61... and so on. We were warned that we could not stop during the two minute event or else we would be considered a failure at this event. So I kept knocking out the push ups and asked the RI what it was that I was doing wrong. He answered with, shut up Ranger and keep knocking them (push ups) out or you will fail. I kept my mouth shut and knocked out approximately 120 push ups. The RI failed me. I got back in line and had the same RI grade my push ups again about ten minutes later. 59, 60, 61, 61, 61, once again I asked what it was I was doing wrong while I cranked out those push ups, and once again the RI stated shut up Ranger and keep knocking them out or else you will fail. That was the first moments of Ranger School and every standard was just as tough. If you were just there to earn your Tab, you were surely going to drop out of the course. But if you were a fully prepared Infantry Stud with the attitude that you attended the Ranger Course to test yourself and understood that you were going to have to push beyond all personal limitations in order to merely make it through the relentless day of Ranger Training. The one thing I really appreciated about Ranger School is that the Standards were set so high, every Infantry Soldier knew it was the very best training and test that any soldier can volunteer for. When finished, with an average of one hour of sleep per day, moving with heavy (very heavy) loads about 10 to 25 kilometers per day, performing tactical maneuvers, and being graded in leadership positions. It was far more harsh than I ever expected, every bit the hardest single accomplishment as far as physical and mental exhaustion in a training environment is concerned. Even for the most hardened and gruesome Infantryman. Ranger School was no joke. I'm not thinking it is at all a place for females. There is no way possible to keep the standards the same. We were not taken back to the rear with the gear to shower when we smelled. That is what Infantrymen do. It is dirty and frankly stinky, to say the least. I eventually became an RI in the Desert Phase and then later in my career a Senior Ranger Instructor in the Mountain Phase. It was a humbling experience serving with top notch soldiers / world class athlete Rangers. To say the least it was an Honor serving with the Ranger Training Brigade and maintain the standards. Let us not lose that, the standards. Let us not add the nonsense of preferential treatment. The RI's were hard as nails but fair. Let us not give away the farm to break the glass ceiling. You will rarely hear any news of Rangers in action, it is a quiet professional tight knit unit that prides itself on operational security. I can see no way to not change the standards once women attend the Ranger Course. This course will become a political agenda which will cause the truly dedicated Ranger Instructors to lose their jobs as RI's as we once knew it. Is it too late to turn back? Let the nonsense begin, female issues, separate but same, political agenda, media scrutiny, RI unfairness, sexual harassment, preferential treatment, male students No-Go's due to (female) not performing to standards during patrols... The list can go on, just ask any RI that has served a full term as an Ranger Instructor. Let us not forget the original intent for this course is to train men to lead soldiers into combat. When we give these limited (Ranger School) slots to female soldiers/officers, then we take away from the Infantryman, the soldiers themselves, and the Infantry Units. Let us not take this away.

 

 

Retired Ranger 1SG David D. Lopez

Paso Robles, CA
Avatar feed
Responses: 240
SSG Supply Sergeant (S4)
1
1
0
I don"t care if a woman can go or not. If they can do the job to the same physical standards not gender biased, i have no issues with that. I feel the school will weed the mentally and physically weak ones out. Never met a ranger who said I can't.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSG Ike Garcia
1
1
0
I agree with you 1ST López, I spend 20 yrs as a Infantryman. Always trying to get that one slot for Ranger School. Always going to pre ranger course. Then when you think your going something comes up. Just glad I'm retired with all the BS going on.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
MAJ Mark N.
1
1
0
Besides the physical fitness and technical knowledge qualifications, which will be debated for years to come, my major objection is just the basic facts of human sexuality and modesty. Unless Ranger school has dramatically changed, I can remember many times where we had to strip down to nothing for river crossings or change "out in the open" after getting wet doing anything in the swamps - and do it often (I was a "winter" Ranger). Same with striping down and running thru the outdoor showers, with nothing on, after a fun encounter with the worm pit or hand-to-hand training. Also, I recall a one-hole pit (hole in the ground) in the center of our patrol bases or hunker down positions. All "business" was done in the open - no privacy offered or expected. Guess the course has....
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SGT Beau Thomas
1
1
0
As I get older, (44) I have younger women do much better on PT tests than me consistently, but I've never had a woman beat my on a heavy ruck march and have never had a woman beat my score on any weapons range....ever. Just my experience. But hey, if a woman can meet the Ranger standard without concessions, then that's good enough for me. I'm pretty sure I could hit the standard.
(1)
Comment
(0)
SGT Beau Thomas
SGT Beau Thomas
11 y
I couldn't hit the standard. That's what the last sentence was supposed to say.
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
LTC Mobilization Readiness Planner
1
1
0
As a 11B and now a 13A, it's a tough call. I went almost 15 years before serving with females. I'm sure there are a few female Soldiers who could handle both the physical and mental aspect, but I believe it may have an internal affect on unit moral. Can't prove that, but just my thoughts.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
COL Jon Thompson
1
1
0
With all the scrutiny on this, my concern is that there will be so much pressure on the ARTB for this to happen that it will be very painful on them if there is a higher wash out rate among females than males. The official line is that standards will be the same but I can see where "unofficially" that might not be the case especially when it comes down to having to answer inquiries all the way up the chain of command. The truth will come out after the first class and if there is any hint of any variances in grading and standards, females with Ranger Tabs will always be tainted.

I also think it is wrong that not all Infantry lieutenants get to attend but this is happening. I personally know two that were not given the chance to go after IBOLC.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
Lt Col Kurtis Sutley
1
1
0
Don't think I've ever heard a more sound logical argument for making Ranger School male only. 1SG Lopez is on time and on target.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
COL Vince Lindenmeyer, Ph.D. (Retired)
1
1
0
1SG, I do not approve of your question as it does not attempt to move the issue forward but "stir the pot." Far too many "discussions" on RP are more "pot stirring" rants than productive conversations. How could you positively discuss the issue to advance a discussion?
(1)
Comment
(0)
1SG David Lopez
1SG David Lopez
11 y
COL, with all due respect, great question, but I have a belief, and my interest is to know what other Veterans and Active Duty Soldiers on RP think . Many people have added persuasive argument that helps us all to see the light, sort to say. I especially like knowing that the females do not want the standards changed. And frankly many of the ass chewings I've got helped me to realize another point of view. I'm sure many other readers are learning as well.
(0)
Reply
(0)
COL Vince Lindenmeyer, Ph.D. (Retired)
COL Vince Lindenmeyer, Ph.D. (Retired)
11 y
Thank you for your response. In the future, I would just recommend that you pose your initial question more inquisitively and less provocative to show more openness as you did in your response to me. Less pot stirring and more open. Thank you
(0)
Reply
(0)
Avatar small
SSG(P) Platoon Sergeant/Ops Ncoic
1
1
0
Ranger school is not only for infantryman. I have. Few buddies that were commo and made it through perfectly fine. Why shouldnt females be able to tryout? I know some females that outperform alot of malea
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SFC Collin McMillion
1
1
0
I could care less about gender. If the standards stay the same and the bar not lower at all, then if you succeed, you will hear no complaints from me, if you fail I don't want to hear complaints from you.
(1)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close