Posted on Feb 7, 2015
What do you "Honestly" think about women attending Ranger School?
235K
1.43K
750
93
89
4
Myself and hundreds of other Retired Rangers are tired of all this nonsense of women attending Ranger School. Why is the Army leadership encouraging special preference to attend a premier infantry and leadership school. It is a hard journey for qualified Male Infantrymen to compete for and get an extremely limited slot to attend the Ranger Course. Many of Rangers had to prove themselves to be hardened Infantry Sergeants in order to even be considered to attend the local Pre-Ranger Course, before even thinking of attending The Ranger Course. Normally an Infantry Company and/or Battalion could only send "one" representative soldier to the Pre-Ranger Course (per course). Infantry Soldiers competed amongst each other to get that slot. The 21-day Pre-Ranger Course, was definitely tough as or tougher than Ranger School itself, was hell to get through. And even after passing, was not a guaranteed slot to attend The Ranger Course due to budget, deployment, and training issues for the unit (not the individual soldier). If you did not get the opportunity to attend The Ranger Course within six months, well it was a requirement to attend the local Division 21-day Pre-Ranger (assessment) Course again. Once again, the male soldier had to pass all standards in order to be recommended to attend The Ranger Course. The Ranger Course had the toughest standards. To begin day one of the Ranger Course, during the APFT, the Ranger Instructor (RI) would not allow you to pass the push up or sit up event the first time. Every Male Ranger Student failed the push up event and had to perform the push up event a second time (five to ten minutes later) to Standard! My first attempt at the push up event, we had to complete at least 62 push ups. The RI was counting, 59, 60, 61, 61, 61... and so on. We were warned that we could not stop during the two minute event or else we would be considered a failure at this event. So I kept knocking out the push ups and asked the RI what it was that I was doing wrong. He answered with, shut up Ranger and keep knocking them (push ups) out or you will fail. I kept my mouth shut and knocked out approximately 120 push ups. The RI failed me. I got back in line and had the same RI grade my push ups again about ten minutes later. 59, 60, 61, 61, 61, once again I asked what it was I was doing wrong while I cranked out those push ups, and once again the RI stated shut up Ranger and keep knocking them out or else you will fail. That was the first moments of Ranger School and every standard was just as tough. If you were just there to earn your Tab, you were surely going to drop out of the course. But if you were a fully prepared Infantry Stud with the attitude that you attended the Ranger Course to test yourself and understood that you were going to have to push beyond all personal limitations in order to merely make it through the relentless day of Ranger Training. The one thing I really appreciated about Ranger School is that the Standards were set so high, every Infantry Soldier knew it was the very best training and test that any soldier can volunteer for. When finished, with an average of one hour of sleep per day, moving with heavy (very heavy) loads about 10 to 25 kilometers per day, performing tactical maneuvers, and being graded in leadership positions. It was far more harsh than I ever expected, every bit the hardest single accomplishment as far as physical and mental exhaustion in a training environment is concerned. Even for the most hardened and gruesome Infantryman. Ranger School was no joke. I'm not thinking it is at all a place for females. There is no way possible to keep the standards the same. We were not taken back to the rear with the gear to shower when we smelled. That is what Infantrymen do. It is dirty and frankly stinky, to say the least. I eventually became an RI in the Desert Phase and then later in my career a Senior Ranger Instructor in the Mountain Phase. It was a humbling experience serving with top notch soldiers / world class athlete Rangers. To say the least it was an Honor serving with the Ranger Training Brigade and maintain the standards. Let us not lose that, the standards. Let us not add the nonsense of preferential treatment. The RI's were hard as nails but fair. Let us not give away the farm to break the glass ceiling. You will rarely hear any news of Rangers in action, it is a quiet professional tight knit unit that prides itself on operational security. I can see no way to not change the standards once women attend the Ranger Course. This course will become a political agenda which will cause the truly dedicated Ranger Instructors to lose their jobs as RI's as we once knew it. Is it too late to turn back? Let the nonsense begin, female issues, separate but same, political agenda, media scrutiny, RI unfairness, sexual harassment, preferential treatment, male students No-Go's due to (female) not performing to standards during patrols... The list can go on, just ask any RI that has served a full term as an Ranger Instructor. Let us not forget the original intent for this course is to train men to lead soldiers into combat. When we give these limited (Ranger School) slots to female soldiers/officers, then we take away from the Infantryman, the soldiers themselves, and the Infantry Units. Let us not take this away.
Retired Ranger 1SG David D. Lopez
Paso Robles, CA
Retired Ranger 1SG David D. Lopez
Paso Robles, CA
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 240
I recently talked to one of the females that just passed pre-Ranger and will be attending the April class (same class I did two years ago) and she has nothing but a Ranger mindset, was very humble and going for 100% the right reasons. So I have no issue with her attending and attempting to earn the Tab. Now I do feel sorry for the RIs cause yes certain people have turned this into a very PC topic/ issue so they'll be damned if they do and damned if they don't. However if the standards are upheld whats the issue? I'm a communicator and I went to school but since I was from Ranger Regiment no-one complains that I'm taking away from infantry dudes. Also 1SG David Lopez please don't refer to yourself as a Ranger I checked your bio at no stage did you serve in the only Ranger unit in the military the 75th Ranger Regiment, you're Ranger qualified.
(1)
(0)
SGT Dylan Epp
1SG David Lopez I wasn't being disrespectful at all unlike your reply. I was simply stating my opinion and facts. Unless you served under the "75th Ranger Regiment" which falls under SOCOM. Your simply not a Ranger you're Ranger qualified. Which like I've stated before is a huge accomplishment and I will never look down on someone who didn't server in Regiment. Everyone has a role to fill, however blind ignorance is just that.
(1)
(0)
SGT Dylan Epp
SFC Robert Giffin I never claimed that pre 1974 Rangers weren't Rangers. We certainly do date our linage from Robert Rogers, the WWII/ Merrills Marauders, Korean and Vietnam Rangers. These men were certainly Rangers. I was simply claiming that to be a modern Ranger you have to have served in or be in the 75th Ranger Regiment. Just like Frog Men were the predecessors of today Navy SEALs and Marine Raiders the predecessors of todays MARSOC.
(0)
(0)
LTC John Wilson
SGT Dylan Epp - The Rangers were not always in place as the 75th Ranger Regiment. After WWII they were disbanded and in latter years reformed into Ranger Companies within Divisions. The LRRP (Long Range Reconnaissance Patrols) were examples of Rangers in divisional units. Advisers (Biet Don Quan-Soldiers of the Forrest in Vietnamese Ranger Units were from Rangers, Special Forces, and other service units trained in Leadership courses and Ranger tactics. They are eligible members of the 75th Ranger Regiment. So they may not have gone to Ranger School and earned a Ranger Tab, but they earned the designation as Rangers from their exemplary leadership and tactical skills while advising foreign troops. Many of these groups have won Presidential Unit Awards, and multiple other decorations that any Ranger would be proud.
(0)
(0)
LTC John Wilson
Green Berets were transferred to Vietnamese Ranger Units when A-Camps were down sized and they were made Ranger Camps. These personnel were Special Forces trained and many did not go to Ranger School to earn a tab. They are designated Rangers just as the ones who wear the tab. In fact some of them are in the Ranger Hall of Fame. Rangers lead the Way!
(0)
(0)
I personally believe that all aspect of military service should be opened to women BUT that comes with one condition:
- Physical requirements, especially in schools like Ranger school, SF etc should have ONE standard. No gender norming. The battlefield does not gender norm and women need to be able to effectively "pull their own weight".
I believe women can operate just as effectively as men in a combat environment. I served on LLVI teams during my career. We had women on our teams. They performed just as well as the men in most aspects. That being said, there were women that didn't quite pull their full weight but then again, there were men that didn't either.
I carried an M-60 for quite some time. In that time I had three different A gunners. The best of them was a woman. So I fully believe that if a woman can hold her own then I say open it all up to them but with no preferential treatment, i.e. gender norming. I think that should be applied service wide anyway. If there are physical standards they should be the same for all service members.
- Physical requirements, especially in schools like Ranger school, SF etc should have ONE standard. No gender norming. The battlefield does not gender norm and women need to be able to effectively "pull their own weight".
I believe women can operate just as effectively as men in a combat environment. I served on LLVI teams during my career. We had women on our teams. They performed just as well as the men in most aspects. That being said, there were women that didn't quite pull their full weight but then again, there were men that didn't either.
I carried an M-60 for quite some time. In that time I had three different A gunners. The best of them was a woman. So I fully believe that if a woman can hold her own then I say open it all up to them but with no preferential treatment, i.e. gender norming. I think that should be applied service wide anyway. If there are physical standards they should be the same for all service members.
(1)
(0)
Arms? Check. Legs? Check. Functioning cardiac, nervous, muscular, skeletal, and respiratory systems? Check, check, check, check, aaaand check. What's the problem then?
(1)
(0)
(0)
(0)
SGT (Join to see)
Ho'oah, Top. I'm personally excited to see how this all turns out. One way or the other, we will still have learned something. And any woman who even attempts that has already earned my respect.
(0)
(0)
LTC John Wilson
Any person that can pass the Ranger School (Current Standards) and earn the Ranger Tab is entitled to wear it proudly as all Rangers do. Rangers do not want to see any lowering of the standards and would rather not have the tab if the standards were lowered to acquiesce to anyone.
(0)
(0)
Women have a right the right to defend USA, children to which we give birth and our family. Its's no longer a sexual thing or right or wrong, all it is for me is my family fought and given their lives to see my family and others the freedom of CHOICE and SPEECH. So ladies if you are reading this; this world challenge will take bumps, bad treatment from men and even some women. Believe in yourself and take all that treatment and use it to push forward and your support is all around you. Prove nothing to everyone but yourself!
(1)
(0)
Keep the standards, and if the women can meet those standards, let them. Simple.
(1)
(0)
I'm just going to leave this here.....
http://www.duffelblog.com/2015/01/infantry-women-study/
http://www.duffelblog.com/2015/01/infantry-women-study/
Study Finds Most Infantrymen Want Females In Their Platoons
THE PENTAGON — A new gender integration study set to be releasedthis week found that nearly 96 percent of infantrymen in the Army and Marine Corps would be “very excited” to have women integrated into their units, especially during combat deployments, Duffel Blog has learned. “Naturally there were some patterns we saw after issuing the …
(1)
(0)
Only if they can can carry a 180 pound man out to safty. It would suck if my battle body was female and I got left for dead becouse she could not carry me out. Thats why I say no but if they can fine. But from what I see very very few will be able to and they must complete the same standards on pt as the men.
(1)
(0)
To any female that is able to make it through Ranger School (without special treatment) Congratulations in advance!! Ranger school is not the end but the beginning for you! Do your sisters proud and make believers of your brothers!! Remember one thing...it is not what you have done but what you can do!!
<1> RLTW! FRRF!
<1> RLTW! FRRF!
(1)
(0)
Read This Next


Women in the Military
Ranger
Ranger School
